Brand New C63S on the dyno

[GAD Tuning North]

We had this very aggressive looking 2019 Mercedes C63s AMG in today.

this S model already runs a light tune from factory, the newer versions have OPF filters which have an adverse affect on pops and bangs.

we were instructed to develop pops and bangs which we developed today for this car.

stock 444bhp & 455ftlbs / 616nm@ wheels
tuned 485bhp & 504ftlbs / 683@ wheels

roughly 584bhp & 607ftlbs / 822nm @ fly with 17% loss

fantastic gains with more to come through adaptations & once the engine runs in more.

great feedback from the customer, with pops and bangs achieved despite having the OPF filter in place & improved traction!!

 

[SmartAmg]

Nice motor, nice gains, thought you didn't have a rolling road at GAD North?

 

[GAD Tuning North]

Nice motor, nice gains, thought you didn't have a rolling road at GAD North?

Hi,

yes she was very darth vaderish, really nice looking car.

We dont have our own dyno in house so we use the dyno room at JM imports in Cramlington.

with it not being in house we have to charge to use there dyno.

thanks.

 

[SmartAmg]

Hi,

yes she was very darth vaderish, really nice looking car.

We dont have our own dyno in house so we use the dyno room at JM imports in Cramlington.

with it not being in house we have to charge to use there dyno.

thanks.

Is it as good as the dyno at GAD Essex?

 

[Alfie]

I thought the s model had 507bhp as standard?
Richards new GLC 63s has! But he does have Performance pack aswell!

 

[AMGeed]

I thought the s model had 507bhp as standard?
Richards new GLC 63s has! But he does have Performance pack aswell!

The pre map figure of 444bhp is at the wheels. Allowing for a 17% loss (MSL allow 18%} that equates to 523 bhp at the flywheel.

The after map figure of 485bhp at the wheels equates to 567bhp at the flywheel, not 584bhp as stated.

Someone has set up the drivetrain loss wrongly so its giving a better end figure.
(Yes, I saw the computer readout. Its still wrong, 584 is closer to a 20% loss)

What can be seen is, again AMG underestimate the power their engines are producing from the factory.

Am I alone in thinking the "pops and bangs" map sounds dreadful. I hate it.

 

[GAD Tuning North]

Is it as good as the dyno at GAD Essex?

I think the dyno room at Essex branch has much better airflow, setup and controlabilty in many aspects.

This is more of a dyno in a room so still gives a good indication of before and after but without the flexibility of checking many more factors and holding revs on full / partial throttle.

 

[GAD Tuning North]

The pre map figure of 444bhp is at the wheels. Allowing for a 17% loss (MSL allow 18%} that equates to 523 bhp at the flywheel.

The after map figure of 485bhp at the wheels equates to 567bhp at the flywheel, not 584bhp as stated.

Someone has set up the drivetrain loss wrongly so its giving a better end figure.
(Yes, I saw the computer readout. Its still wrong, 584 is closer to a 20% loss)

What can be seen is, again AMG underestimate the power their engines are producing from the factory.

Am I alone in thinking the "pops and bangs" map sounds dreadful. I hate it.

Yea this is from the calcs at the guys with this dyno


Really the true reading is at the wheels

The calcs that were mentioned for a 15% loss = figure ÷0.85

For 17% loss = figure ÷0.83

But again that's there own method which was given to them by an engineer who does all the calcs for wind turbines.


Each to there own and everyone has there own method but @ the wheels is what is important.

Hope that helps.

Thanks

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

Is it as good as the dyno at GAD Essex?

A dyno is one of those things with many variables! On our dyno we never see them make more than quoted!

Also our dyno is purely load based not interia so a couple of things with this as American dynos are famous or reading much higher figures like the Dynojet systems but in this case even though I asked and Nass asked for the the runs to be made in 5th or 6th they refused and said 4th is still best in the 9spd gearbox which isn't the case on interia modes as 4th running that power and torque easily over comes the interia of those large heavy rollers so doesnt provide the load needed to get the thing to spool up enough!

I have had cases of customers being on a dynojet and saying I have 760-780bhp and our dyno they barely scratch 700.

Nass is booking more time there to get runs in 5th and 6th

This wouldn't be too much of an issue on our dyno as any gear I can sync the dyno to the RPM and put under as much load or what ever ramp rate I want the rollers to release.

Many thanks

 

[AMGeed]

Yea this is from the calcs at the guys with this dyno


Really the true reading is at the wheels

The calcs that were mentioned for a 15% loss = figure ÷0.85

For 17% loss = figure ÷0.83

But again that's there own method which was given to them by an engineer who does all the calcs for wind turbines.

Maybe I should use those calcs when adjusting for the flywheel figure

The method I was given at MSL is to multiply the figure at the wheels by 1.17 for a 17% loss which gives quite a lower figure.
I agree, the WHP is the one that really counts. The higher filywheel figure is for impressing your mates at the pub

 

[alexanderfoti]

Maybe I should use those calcs when adjusting for the flywheel figure

The method I was given at MSL is to multiply the figure at the wheels by 1.17 for a 17% loss which gives quite a lower figure.
I agree, the WHP is the one that really counts. The higher filywheel figure is for impressing your mates at the pub

Your not alone on the pop and bang map.....

It sounds much better when it's natural, eg combination of hot exhaust, and perfect fuel mixture in exhaust, and therefore random. Each to their own.

 

[GAD Tuning LTD]

Your not alone on the pop and bang map.....

It sounds much better when it's natural, eg combination of hot exhaust, and perfect fuel mixture in exhaust, and therefore random. Each to their own.

As much as I love pop and bang it is something very artificial these days! We programme this to many makes and models but as its programmed its the same every time!

A pal of mine has a fully decatted Maserati MC Stradale and the natural over run of fuel mixture and hot exhaust is great you never know when its going to happen or at what volume.

Many thanks

 

[alexanderfoti]

As much as I love pop and bang it is something very artificial these days! We programme this to many makes and models but as its programmed its the same every time!

A pal of mine has a fully decatted Maserati MC Stradale and the natural over run of fuel mixture and hot exhaust is great you never know when its going to happen or at what volume.

Many thanks

Exactly my thoughts as well. Some burble tunes are a bit more subtle but it's still not the same.

 

[GAD Tuning North]

Hi all

Yes I did have a slight disagreement with the chaps about the chosen gear... on the 9 speed gear 6 is true 1:1 ratio

This car was ran in 4th

I only realised when the tuned runs were taking place and we were out of time as they were so busy that day on the dyno.

We will have thos car in again in the near future as the gains should have been more but again on the 9 speeds you should run them in 5th as a minimum or 6th gear.

To get a more accurate reading it shouldn't have been in 4th gear.

I will post the results in the coming months

Hope that sheds some light on the matter.

A dyno is one of those things with many variables! On our dyno we never see them make more than quoted!

Also our dyno is purely load based not interia so a couple of things with this as American dynos are famous or reading much higher figures like the Dynojet systems but in this case even though I asked and Nass asked for the the runs to be made in 5th or 6th they refused and said 4th is still best in the 9spd gearbox which isn't the case on interia modes as 4th running that power and torque easily over comes the interia of those large heavy rollers so doesnt provide the load needed to get the thing to spool up enough!

I have had cases of customers being on a dynojet and saying I have 760-780bhp and our dyno they barely scratch 700.

Nass is booking more time there to get runs in 5th and 6th

This wouldn't be too much of an issue on our dyno as any gear I can sync the dyno to the RPM and put under as much load or what ever ramp rate I want the rollers to release.

Many thanks