Buying CLS 500 W219 advice needed

Cipollini

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Hi all,

I was looking at 320CDI, but didn´t find car with good condition and features so I decided I´ll go for 500. I´ve never driven this version.
I have really a plenty of questions, I´d be grateful if I´ll get advices.

Considering two cars around here. The first is 2004 225kW 280k km(no service book, but better features-navi, TV, massaging dynamic seats, etc.) for 8500eur.

The second is 2007 285kW LPG 390k km(full service history but with less features and a bit teared passenger seat) for 6500eur.

Which one would you go for? Newer and cheaper car with more powerful engine and LPG or older 225kW without history, but great condition and better features?

My other questions are:
We have usually snow here all winter, is CLS 500 with good winter tires ok in winter, or it´s too powerful to be good in snow?
Can I just buy the navigation system unit elsewhere and just install it in the 2007 CLS instead of CD radio? Or it needs some installation in MB service?
Are dynamic massaging seats worth it, or heated and ventilated seats in 2007 car are good enough?
Possible to repair the damaged seat(pic enclosed)?
Is really newer 285kW version better than 225kW in terms of performance, fuel consumption?
I´d like to improve sound(sport air filters, straight exhaust pipe or gutted silencers), will LPG work properly with these changes?

Thanks a lot for advices!
 

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LostKiwi

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Hi and welcome.
Yes that seat can be repaired fairly easily by a leather specialist.
The early engine is an M113 and generally pretty bombproof but the later M274 engine is more economical and more powerful (and is actually a 5.5 litre).
LPG should be treated no differently to petrol. There are lots of myths and suppositions about it but whatever you do it will behave the same as petrol. The only difference may be a need to retune the injection but that will depend entirely on the LPG injection system used and many will self tune just as petrol does (to an extent).


As to which to get it will depend entirely on condition.

Oh.. and don't bother with filter changes to a "Sports" filter - it's a waste of money.
 
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Cipollini

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@LostKiwi Hi, and thank you.

Later I will upload some pics of both cars. Of course I´m going to have a look in person at both cars and have a test ride. To be honest the 2007 car is tempting me much more, it has more powerful 5.5 engine and should be a bit more economical on petrol too. Though because of LPG it could possibly ride a lot cheaper than 320CDI....hell, the roaring V8! :)

But I´d like to have massage seats too, but not tried them yet, are they really that good, or it´s just pointless feature?

Thanks for advice about sport filter, thought the Green or K&N would add some HP and sound. But I won´t bother with it and I´ll go for chiptuning instead and some sport exhaust(or rather just gut the pipes)- for the sound. Don´t want to make any kind of tuned car from it, but this engine deserves to be a bit louder.


About my other questions, how it´s about the snow driving the CLS500?
And about additional installing of TV/Satnav unit into car? They are quite cheap, found some on eBay: https://lnk.sk/mS45 Is it just plug and play or the replacing is more complicated?

Thanks a lot!
 

LostKiwi

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thought the Green or K&N would add some HP and sound.
Noise, not power. K&N and the like are marketing cons for most cars.
Simple test: remove air filter and drive car. Test for power (don't get confused thinking noise=power). Fit new air filters and repeat. I'll warrant there's sod all difference.
 

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I used my 63 as a daily and the SL500 before it towards the end - both had winter tyres on from October to April. Ok we don’t get real winter where I live but both did winter Scottish trips and on that rubber they are usable
 
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Cipollini

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Thanks both, I hope 500 won´t be any worse in snow than 320CDI.

About satnav: https://lnk.sk/mS45 Is it just simple plug and play or the replacing is complicated? Owner of 2007 car told me that his car has Harman/Kardon audio system so if I´d want to replace CD unit for navigation I´ll need some special Harman/Kardon satnav unit to work properly, is it true?
 
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Cipollini

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2004 225kW car:

197U OBSIDIAN BLACK
200A LEATHER
202B OWNERS MANUAL AND SERVICE RECORD - GERMAN
208A LEATHER - GRAY
220 PARKTRONIC SYSTEM (PTS)
242 ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE RIGHT DRIVER SEAT W MEMORY
273B AIRBAGLABLE - SLOVAKIAN/ENGLISH
275 MEMORY PACKAGE (DRIVER SEAT, STRG. COL., MIRROR)
386 UNIVERSAL TELEPHONY PACKAGE
401 FRONT SEAT CLIMATE CONTROL
427 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION 7-SPEED
428 STEER.WHEEL GEARSHIFT BUTTONS/SHIFT PADDLE PAINTED
433 LEFT DRIVING DYNAMICS SEAT
434 RIGHT DRIVING DYNAMICS SEAT
481 UNDERSHIELDS
489 AIRMATIC DUAL CONTROL / AIR SUSPENSION SEMI-ACTIVE
527 COMAND DVD APS WITH NAVIGATION
540 ROLLER BLIND, ELECTRIC, FOR REAR WINDOW
551 BASIC ANTITHEFT ALARM SYSTEM (ATA)
580L SLOVAKIAN REPUBLIC
581 AUTOMATIC CLIMATE CONTROL
5XXL EUROPE
600 HEADLAMPS - CLEANING EQUIPMENT
615 BI-XENON HEADLICHT W.ACTVIE CURVELIGHT RIGHT-DRIVE
619 CORNERING ILLUMINATION
679 PRODUCT PROTECTION - PART PROTECTION
805 YEAR OF MODIFICATION
819 CD CHANGER
860 TV-TUNER ANALOG
872 REAR SEAT BENCH HEATING LEFT UND RIGHT
882 SENSOR SYSTEM AND ANTITHEFT ALARM SYSTEM
889 KEYLESS - GO
983 COC PAPER EURO 4 TECHNOLOGY W/O REG. CERT. PART II
F219 MODEL SERIES 219
FC COUPE
G901 TRANSMISSION CODE VERSION 01
H05 TRIM PIECES - ELM TREE WOOD OPEN-PORED (2B19)
HA REAR AXLE
L LEFT-HAND STEERING
M113 V8-GASOLINE ENGINE M113
M50 DISPLACEMENT 5.0 LITER
R31
VL FRONT AXLE HALF, LEFT
VR FRONT AXLE HALF, RIGHT
Rychlá odpověď
 

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Cipollini

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2007 285kW car:

040U BLACK
200A LEATHER
202B OWNERS MANUAL AND SERVICE RECORD - GERMAN
207A LEATHER - RED
220 PARKTRONIC SYSTEM (PTS)
249 INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR MIRROR,AUTOMATICALLY DIMMING
250B MOBILO LIFE/EUROPE SERVICE PACKAGE
273B AIRBAGLABLE - SLOVAKIAN/ENGLISH
282 THROUGH-LOADING FEATURE VIA ARMREST IN REAR
293 SIDEBAG IN REAR LEFT AND RIGHT
401 FRONT SEAT CLIMATE CONTROL
427 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION 7-SPEED
475 TIRE PRESSURE CONTROL
481 UNDERSHIELDS
489 AIRMATIC DUAL CONTROL / AIR SUSPENSION SEMI-ACTIVE
525 CONNECT 20 HIGH (NTG7)
573 CHILD SEAT MOUNTING, ISOFIX IN REAR
580L SLOVAKIAN REPUBLIC
581 AUTOMATIC CLIMATE CONTROL
5XXL EUROPE
600 HEADLAMPS - CLEANING EQUIPMENT
615 BI-XENON HEADLICHT W.ACTVIE CURVELIGHT RIGHT-DRIVE
619 CORNERING ILLUMINATION
690 EMERGENCY SPARE TIRE (MINI SPARE)
691 PRODUCT PROTECTION - BUMPER
807 YEAR OF MODIFICATION
810 PREMIUM SOUND SYSTEM
819 CD CHANGER
983 COC PAPER EURO 4 TECHNOLOGY W/O REG. CERT. PART II
A22 NEW CONVERTER GENERATION
A24 JOINT FLANGE, 4-ARM 120
A38 M - VALVE BODY ASSEMBLY WITH VGS 2
A44 SOFTWARE 3
A49 CONVERTER WITH 3 FRICTION DISKS
H07 TRIM PIECES - WOOD ZEN BROWN - FINELINE
K11 ADAPTIVE STOP LIGHT FLASHING
K12 STEUERCODE FUER SERVICEINTERVALL 30000 KM
K13 CONTROL CODE FOR SERVICE INTERVAL 25000 KM
M273 V8-GASOLINE ENGINE M273
M55 CAPACITY 5,5 LITRE
R01 SUMMER TIRES
R31
V07 SPEED- + LOADINDEX 93Y
 

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Terrykal

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Hi,

What did you eventually chose?
Back in April I purchased a late CLS00 model with the old V8 M113 (it was produced till mid 2006 if not mistaken with this engine)
I went for this engine because it is considered to be bulletproof, as stated above from other guys too.
My plan is to sell my daily 2014 320d and make my 2006 cls500 a daily car instead. I am commuting for 120miles 3 days per week (so that’s 600km just for going to office and back home weekly) so my plan is to install a reputable lpg system to have some savings in fuel costs (I used to own a BRC lpg system modern car in recent past and I can say that I was very happy with it).

I really want to know what was you choice and if it was the m273, how it is with the lpg on it.
Thanks.
 
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Cipollini

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Hi,
unfortunately I´m still looking for the right car as I didn´t find yet. M113 is a safe bet but after I tried the M273 5.5 I don´t want the older V8 anymore. The performance is great and the car was pushing me into seat under full throttle. The 5.0 is perfect too, but the performance is lower and fuel economy the same.

About LPG, I had trial ride on the M273 LPG and strongly recommend to install one(in case you´re planning to keep the car or doing high mileage). The LPG system in that car was Tartarini and I couldn´t tell the difference when I was driving LPG or Petrol. Don´t know fuel costs in your country, but here the fuel cost of the 5.5 with LPG is notably better than 320CDI.
Installing reputable LPG system on the V8 is not cheap, but definitely worth it. And driving and listening huge V8 for the fuel cost of some 2.0TDi is a pleasure.
I cannot wait to drive one myself, unfortunately there´s a plenty of 320CDIs and 350s on the market, but almost none V8..
 

LostKiwi

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If fitting LPG see if a liquid injection system is available. The liquid (as opposed to gas injection) give better power and better economy.
 

Terrykal

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Hi, thanks for the update.
I used to own a 320i with BRC plug n drive installed by specialist and during my ownership of the car. As you say, that car was giving back (money wise) similar to my mother's 1.2 3cylinder VW Polo.
I had the impression that fitting a LPG system on m273 is not that straight forward.
Also, my preference on m113 had to do with a cheaper annual tax here in UK. And it's 47kg of torque are plenty enough for me (although more power and torque is always welcome)
I will probably go for BRC again, tartarini is a well known brand but on the medium brand side.
Thanks and hopefully you will find your dreamcar. I spend 3-4 months to find the right one or at least the one that ticked most of the boxes if you know what I mean.
 
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Cipollini

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Hi, you´re welcome.
BRC is one of the best LPG systems, but one of the most expensive. Did you quote the rebuild cost in LPG workshops yet? If you could have some Tartarini or any other reputable brand for good price I wouldn´t be worried, Tartarini is running flawlessly in CLS500 and there´s no power lost compared to petrol. Just be sure you´re installing the right system for your car(power wise). Some of the weaker systems are injecting some petrol too in higher rpm. Of course, if you can afford BRC, it´s sure bet. Btw. why do you have the impression that fitting a LPG system is not easy on the M273? It´s quite plain engine, no direct injection.

Currently I´m driving Ford Cougar 2.5(with Easyjet LPG) so the M113 was a like a supersonic rocket compared to it, but the M273 gave me better feeling under throttle. CLS55 AMG would be another step above, but the prices are still crazy.
Thank you, I know exactly what you mean. But as I can see the lack of 500s on our market I lowered the requirements on my dreamcar to serviced 5.5 in good condition with heated and ventilated leathers, bixenons and airmatic. I don´t mind the colour, or other specs, just want to find it soon :)
I am just curious how the car will behave in winter, we have quite hard winters. I am ready to buy set of new Blizzaks for it and I hope I´ll be fine.
 
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Cipollini

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@LostKiwi Do you know the price of this system for 8-cyl.?
 

LostKiwi

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@LostKiwi Do you know the price of this system for 8-cyl.?
Sorry no idea.
I've been following liquid injection development for some time and it's definitely superior to gas injection. No starting on petrol, no vapouriser, more power, more economy. What's not to like (apart from cost perhaps).
 

Terrykal

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I thought liquid injection was developed for direct injection engines in order to provide a solution for their valves' cooling issue on direct engines. for indirect injection it won't make any difference (apart from skipping the water coolant connections etc). At least this is what is have read and heard when asked installers.
Do you know the disadvantages of this type of log system? Thanks in advance.
 

Terrykal

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@ cipolinni : it seems that tartarini is not so popular here, most prefer AC stag or BRC or prins. I will try to search it further.
As said, M273 is not so bulletproof as the m113, at least from what I was reading (since I never had one of these two engines before). I tend not to buy the very first releases of car models or engines. So buying an early m273 was something I wanted to avoid. With the combination of the low tax for cars before 3/2006 I focused on a late example of m113. So a late 2005 or early 2006 CLS w219 was the only option for my criteria.
 

LostKiwi

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I thought liquid injection was developed for direct injection engines in order to provide a solution for their valves' cooling issue on direct engines. for indirect injection it won't make any difference (apart from skipping the water coolant connections etc). At least this is what is have read and heard when asked installers.
Do you know the disadvantages of this type of log system? Thanks in advance.
The kit linked to has the injectors in the manifold. The benefit to indirect injection is more accurate metering (easier to meter a liquid than a gas) and the cooling effect as the vaporises in the manifold increases charge density = better power and no messing about with vapourisers (which can be challenging to find room for).
As far as I'm aware there are no downsides to liquid systems.
 
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Cipollini

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Hey guys, today I had a look at the 500 M273. Car is driving like a dream, AT shifts flawlessly, engine runs great and in corners the car laughs in the face of physics.
But there is some leakage underneath. Don´t know the names of this parts, but on first should be an airmatic spring(?), on the other pics is some engine leakage and some damaged chassis parts.

Would you buy it anyway? Would it be an expensive repair?

Thanks
 

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