C Class with Sequentronic automated manual transmission. Problems.

[Plezier]

So today I learn that the "Automatic C Class" I bought last week is not in fact an automatic but in fact a manual gear box with automatic clutch operation. Had asked the garage to service engine and automatic gearbox only to be it has not got an automatic gearbox and so has no gearbox filter. Anyway they changed it's oil and did the engine service and they replaced the antiroll (sway bar) rubber bushes as I asked and fitted two new front drop links, nuts needed cutting off, whilst I was being shown this noticed the left front lower suspension arms ball joints rubber boot was torn and when the arm was tugged down movement was noticed and felt so asked them to get a new one and fit it which they did.

Of course this does not explain the issue we have been experiencing with the box, the Transmiss visit workshop message, the refusing to engage gear when it's cold outside with the "engage parking brake" when one starts to drive off and re engage gear messages. Will see if things have improved after the oil change if not it's more troubles as could be control unit of even the hydraulic pump.

 

[Plezier]

So today I learn that the "Automatic C Class" I bought last week is not in fact an automatic but in fact a manual gear box with automatic clutch operation. Had asked the garage to service engine and automatic gearbox only to be it has not got an automatic gearbox and so has no gearbox filter. Anyway they changed it's oil and did the engine service and they replaced the antiroll (sway bar) rubber bushes as I asked and fitted two new front drop links, nuts needed cutting off, whilst I was being shown this noticed the left front lower suspension arms ball joints rubber boot was torn and when the arm was tugged down movement was noticed and felt so asked them to get a new one and fit it which they did.

Of course this does not explain the issue we have been experiencing with the box, the Transmiss visit workshop message, the refusing to engage gear when it's cold outside with the "engage parking brake" when one starts to drive off and re engage gear messages. Will see if things have improved after the oil change if not it's more troubles as could be control unit of even the hydraulic pump.

Well we now have a replacement front SAM but as yet it's not fitted and for the last week we have had no gears now the SAM when fitted may help with this issue but from what I am finding on the net this no gears in cold temps, we currently have snow/ice and temps of -10 at night and for the last few days not reaching + temps in the day, seems to be caused by weak hydraulic pump motor or worn gears in the pump itself ...................... wonderful a new pump is 221 euros from Germany so that's another week for delivery so yet another week with the car being usable.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

What year is your C Class?

 

[Plezier]

What year is your C Class?

2003 On the way back from the city I went to see a Mercedes indi garage. Not the garage that have been dealing with before and lucky for me the chap there speaks English and we went over the issues and he says that we need to check the hydraulic fluid level in the system that operates the gear change and clutch which is something that had been wondering about and something I asked the garage the changed the gearbox oil to do but they did not! Seems there is a set procedure for doing it and if we can get this C200 there he will take a look and see what can be sorted out so tomorrow as it's forecast to be +4 instead of todays -7 temp will see about swapping the SAM unit over and see if that sorts out the Windscreen washers or not and if we get any gears or not.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Ah you have one of the old steptronic transmissions. Dont see many of them but yes, they were problematic back in the day. A similar transmission was used in the old W168 which had a manual stick but no clutch. Thats how you need to view your box, as a clutchless manual as opposed to a automatic transmission.

The pumps were often the common failure.

The gearbox oil change wont do much, its not a an auto hydraulic box where oil level is critical for shift operation so you have probably been saved a few quid.

I dont think the tranmission is linked that heavily to the SAM unit that it would cause a total loss of gears.

 

[Plezier]

No

Ah you have one of the old steptronic transmissions. Dont see many of them but yes, they were problematic back in the day. A similar transmission was used in the old W168 which had a manual stick but no clutch. Thats how you need to view your box, as a clutchless manual as opposed to a automatic transmission.

The pumps were often the common failure.

The gearbox oil change wont do much, its not a an auto hydraulic box where oil level is critical for shift operation so you have probably been saved a few quid.

I dont think the tranmission is linked that heavily to the SAM unit that it would cause a total loss of gears.

No it is not steptronic MG-Rover used those and steptronic does not use a normal clutch instead it uses variable pulleys like the DAF car did. This is from a Mercedes manual about the 716.6 transmission :-

"Sequentronic automated manual transmission (SEQ)"

Also I am now well aware how to drive it and have covered 1100 km since purchase before it decided not to work. The box oil change was not a waste of time IHMO as the car has 448,000km on the clock so fresh oil cannot be bad. Have previous owned and driven2 Rove 75's that were proper automatics and their JATCO auto boxes are quite adapt at being driven like a clutch less manual they are also learning boxes adapting to your driving style I also found the Honda derived Rover 623 automatic to be not so adaptable in this.

Not knowing what the heck a W168 was just googled it and found out it's that bluddy awful A Class and no have never even been in one and frankly have no desire too. The pumps on the W168 are mounted according to posts I found online under the front wing The pump on mine is mounted on the side of the gearbox,

Sequentronic automated manual transmission (SEQ) was also called "Sprint Shift" and found on Sprinter LCV (Vans).

 

[Plezier]

Ah you have one of the old steptronic transmissions. Dont see many of them but yes, they were problematic back in the day. A similar transmission was used in the old W168 which had a manual stick but no clutch. Thats how you need to view your box, as a clutchless manual as opposed to a automatic transmission.

The pumps were often the common failure.

The gearbox oil change wont do much, its not a an auto hydraulic box where oil level is critical for shift operation so you have probably been saved a few quid.

I dont think the tranmission is linked that heavily to the SAM unit that it would cause a total loss of gears.

Have just discovered that the front SAM has 1 relay for the gearbox and 3 fuses related to it :-

N	SEQ [ASG] pump control relay (with Sequentronic automated manual transmission (ASG))

 

[Plezier]

Update .......

After another diagnostics scanning (different system) and it finding no electronic faults connected to the gearbox we ae wondering if it's something as simple as a plug not being pushing in properly or even disconnected. The "mechanic" who changed the gearbox oil moved some things connected to the gearbox auto changing to get access to the filler plug on the side of the box and the gearboxes rear support. So am wondering if this may be one of the issues and perhaps the connections were pulled slightly and have since come apart due to road and transmission vibrations only way to find out is get it up in the air and physically check the connections! While there am thinking of checking condition of coolant and changing if needed plus brake fluid flush and renew.

Hopefully as the chap with the Star system is just around the corner we can get him to sort the SAM replacement unit out and get the screen washers working and maybe the stereo unit to work and if we can get some gears then drive it to the Mercedes specialist who can check/change the auto change hydraulis fluid and we may ........................................ just may have a working C200!

Now we wait for the call to let us know when he has got the recovery to come and collect it.

 

[mioba]

Sounds like your mechanic is cluless and you
know it all.

You got this!

 

[tpn]

Update .......

After another diagnostics scanning (different system) and it finding no electronic faults connected to the gearbox we ae wondering if it's something as simple as a plug not being pushing in properly or even disconnected. The "mechanic" who changed the gearbox oil moved some things connected to the gearbox auto changing to get access to the filler plug on the side of the box and the gearboxes rear support. So am wondering if this may be one of the issues and perhaps the connections were pulled slightly and have since come apart due to road and transmission vibrations only way to find out is get it up in the air and physically check the connections! While there am thinking of checking condition of coolant and changing if needed plus brake fluid flush and renew.

Hopefully as the chap with the Star system is just around the corner we can get him to sort the SAM replacement unit out and get the screen washers working and maybe the stereo unit to work and if we can get some gears then drive it to the Mercedes specialist who can check/change the auto change hydraulis fluid and we may ........................................ just may have a working C200!

Now we wait for the call to let us know when he has got the recovery to come and collect it.

How did you finish up with a lowly Mercedes with such a gearbox. Why don't you just dump it and put in the one that should be there.
Sequential gearboxes are lumpy and noisy, they have straight cut gears.

Only time I ever used these gearboxes were in rally cars and they had a short life before they had to overhauled again and again (no more than 1000 stage miles, which would be two seasons) and doing it at home still cost over €1000.00 each time if it needed more than bearings.

The only Merc I know of with a sequential gearbox is a CLK GTR. I think you can get an exchange box for around £10,000.00

 

[Plezier]

Sounds like your mechanic is cluless and you
know it all.

You got this!

Actually I know little about Mercedes and rather regretting getting involved with them at all! So far we have had the car scanned with 3 different systems, my nephew has a Delphi, George has a Star and I do not know which system Mitko uses he is the one whom is arranging the recovery on Monday though due to the poor state of the track to our property we will have to use the Discovery TD5 to tow the C200 out onto proper tarmac for it to be picked up. George was not answering my calls hence contacting another garage and Mitko hopefully as they are close together George will take his star scanner to Mitkos (which is close by) and between them perhaps they can get it sorted.

I have spent days researching the issues on the net and made several visits to the Mercedes specialist and it was he who suggested that the hydraulic fluid might be low and that the pump needs to be checked as well but he is booked up for 2 weeks. Explaining what I have already had done to the car, engine service, filters, gearbox oil changed, front drop links and LHS lower suspension arm replaced and telling that the "mechanics" had to remove some of the boxes electronics to gain access to the level/filler plug Mitko suggested that perhaps they were not replaced properly and perhaps one of the connections plugs is not making contact properly or had even come undone so needs the undertray removed so that this may be physically checked.

Now I am not exactly a novice at car repair and maintenance having restored my MGF 75th Anniversary including replacing front subframe rebuilding the front suspension upgrading the front brakes with alloy AP calipers 304 mm discs. Fabricating a brake servo brace, overhauling the rear suspension replacing cam belt/water pump after fitting later TF 135 higher lift cams and TF 135 alloy inlet manifold after adapting it to work on the earlier MPI engine. Also hand scraped chamfers into the inlet ports to remove the sharp step and improve/smooth the inlet flow as the TF135 manifold has larger ports that the 118 MPI head. Plus in my youth have rebuilt motor cycle engines, replaced blown head gaskets on cars, replaced trunions and king pins on suspension, skimmed discs, rebuilt brake calipers, drilled discs made slab alloy yokes and risers and even built my own chop/street fighter motorcycle.

 

[Plezier]

How did you finish up with a lowly Mercedes with such a gearbox. Why don't you just dump it and put in the one that should be there.
Sequential gearboxes are lumpy and noisy, they h
Only time I ever used these gearboxes were in rally cars and they had a short life before they had to overhauled again and again (no more than 1000 stage miles, which would be two seasons) and doing it at home still cost over €1000.00 each time if it needed more than bearings.

The only Merc I know of with a sequential gearbox is a CLK GTR. I think you can get an exchange box for around £10,000.00

 

[Plezier]

Hmmmmm am thinking that your confused as the SEQ box is also known by the label "Sprint shift" and found in Sprinter vans and motor homes built on the Sprinter chassis. It does not have as as I can see straight cut gears but normal gears.

"The new manual transmission 716.6 is a fully synchronized two- A precise and light shift with short shifting travels is achieved by shaft transmission with six forward gears and one reverse gear the following measures: and is used for all passenger car series with conventional rear Transmission of the shift lever movement to the transmission drive with gasoline and diesel engines. by the shift rod and control cable Four versions of the 6-speed manual transmission are used, Central shift shaft supported on needle bearings with a torque transmission capability of 250 to 400 Nm. Multiple-cone synchronization in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear The 6th gear is used to save fuel and reduce engine speed. Fully-synchronized reverse gear Due to the additional 6th gear, the wider spread and the higher torque transmission, the new 6-speed manual transmission is heavier than the 5-speed manual transmission. The manual transmission is equipped with a conventional dry clutch with automatic wear adjuster which is operated by a central clutch operator familiar from the 168 series. The transmission is maintenance-free and has a permanent oil fill."

That is from a MG manual that I found online. Seeing as how this C200 has nearly 450,000kmon the clock I thought it might be a good idea to have the boxes oil changed.