Car shudders

Jay999

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Sorry new to all this but have an issue I need all you experts to advise me on.
I have a E270 (52 plate). Back in October 2013 I started noticing the car would shudder when accelerating on the motorway or going up hills. I was advised to have the wheels balanced and aligned which I did but the issue was still there. Then I had all four tyres changed (at the advice of the people balancing the wheels - it probably didn't need new tyres but thought that might resolve the issue). The issue was still there. Then I was advised to contact VT Wheels in High Wycombe and the guy told me straight away on the phone what the issue was. He said it was very common fault on these cars and it needed the torque converter replacing which they did for me at a cost £1700. I had to take car back to them a month later as the issue had come back again. They resolved by synching the gear box with the torque converter - that's what I was told. I have to admit I didn't think the issue had completely gone away but convinced myself that it was just in my head. The issue got very bad (as it had the first time) and I took the car back to VT Wheels. I didn't hear anything for about a week and I called to find out and was told that they are unable to take the torque converter off. To cut a long story short - the gear box with the torque converter was taken out and sent to the torque converter manufacturer (in Aylesbury I think) and they could only take the torque converter out by breaking the gear box. I have been told that the oil pump in the gearbox was responsible for the torque converter seizing and that was the only way to take it out and as it was the oil pump that had caused the issue (which they had not touched) then the issue is not theirs but they will try and get a second hand gearbox and try to resolve this as a gesture of good will. The car has now been with them for over 5 weeks now and I have been told they can not locate the correct gearbox. As a last resort I have joined this forum to get some advice. Please help! I have no negative comments about VT Wheels as they supplied me with courtesy car (a Fiesta - beggars can't be choosers) but this whole issue is stressing me out!
 

V6Matty

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sounds like a classic case of glycol contamination, so yes a full refurb of the box would have been needed, does sound like they are not used to this type of problem or box so i would really press them in full disclosure on what is happening and when (suggest in writing), if you want a 2nd hand/refurbed box then search around for breakers like dronfields, they normall have recon boxes available. any reason you hadn't taken the car to an indy to find out what the problem was?
 

star

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Sound like you have a Glycol(coolant) contamination of the tc. Did the replace the radiator or fit an external oil cooler.
As to the pump/converter seizing, I have only ever seen this when the torque converter has not been fitted correctly to the gearbox during installation, it has to "drop" onto the splines AND oil pump. If not, then the tc will weld itself to the pump.
 

AdamG

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I think there has been some issues with the 7 speed 722.9 box where the torque converter hub seizes to the pump bushing.

http://www.gearsmagazine.com/magazine/view/8d9bfa45-1b43-4356-a46e-3b9bf714d2dc#page30

There is a modified bearing style pump to combat this.

I'm not sure if any 5 speed boxes have failed in this way. The pump is the same for both transmissions and I fitted it when rebuilding my box as a precaution.

Adam
 
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Jay999

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Thanks for the replies.

Matt - are VT Wheels not an indy? My normal garage (not Mercedes specialist) advised I go to VT Wheels as the mechanic at VTW used to work for Mercedes they said.

Star - all I know is that they just replaced the torque converter. It seems exactly like you describe from what VTW told me that they could not take the TC off - got welded? So their saying they do not touch the oil pump is not true as the TC has to sit on it and if not fitted correctly it can cause this?
 

V6Matty

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Thanks for the replies.

Matt - are VT Wheels not an indy? My normal garage (not Mercedes specialist) advised I go to VT Wheels as the mechanic at VTW used to work for Mercedes they said.

they are independent but not in the way I was referring, I was getting at an independent Mercedes specialist, who know the cars inside out and work on them regularly. The guy that used to work for Merc may know things and as he isn't on here to defend himself I can't say he doesn't know what he was doing, but it does seem that maybe he thought he knew but wasn't aware of corrected procedures or newer faults.

Have you spoken to a gearbox specialist locally, they may be able to locate a replacement box for you as they do have those sort of connections.
 
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Jay999

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Matt - I joined this forum to try and understand from you 'experts' whether I'm being misled about what actually has caused the issue (and who's responsible). I have already spent over £2k on trying to resolve this issue ( on a car that's probably worth between £3K and £4K) and can't really afford to spend any more and have left to VTW to source a second hand gearbox and fit it in but it's taking time - five weeks already!

Thanks for your advice.
 

Naraic

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People are trying to help...even an expert in the form of Star. But as to whether you are being misled that would be impossible to say.
 

drdre78

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I am sorry to say should have taken it to Mercedes delear/ good india who would have done Glycol test which will tell how far it gone.So what they did was replace torque convert and didn't bother replacing radiator and that why you know still have problem and know probley need new gearbox and torque convert and radiator to solve the problem
 

Triv

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Matt - I joined this forum to try and understand from you 'experts' whether I'm being misled about what actually has caused the issue (and who's responsible). I have already spent over £2k on trying to resolve this issue ( on a car that's probably worth between £3K and £4K) and can't really afford to spend any more and have left to VTW to source a second hand gearbox and fit it in but it's taking time - five weeks already!

Thanks for your advice.

Unfortunately you're in a very sticky spot now.
I think Matt's point was about using an independent Mercedes specialist, who has lots of experience with these cars and would know that fixing the symptoms doesn't solve the problem. Only someone experienced in these matters would know that something outside the gearbox was the cause of the problems inside the gearbox.

Expert opinion and possible diagnosis (from a distance, without seeing the car) has been offered by Star. He is a Mercedes specialist. He would know exactly where to start looking for the problem by looking at the symptoms.

The sticky spot you're now in, is that it's impossible for anyone to say whether or not you're being misled as to what's actually caused the failure. You have come along after the event. Proving any liability will probably be a time consuming, expensive and fruitless exercise.
Five weeks to source one of those gearboxes is a long time. I expect you could source one on this forum with just one or two phone calls.
Perhaps the garage are researching the problem in order to not make the same mistake on the replacement box.
Perhaps they are researching the problem in order to try and understand what happened, with a view of acting in your best interest and ascertain any liability on their behalf.
Perhaps they're not bothered because deep down they know it's something they've done but really don't want to admit it (to themselves as much as you).
Perhaps they don't have the time or contacts to be able find a replacement box quickly.
I could go on with the different possible scenarios but the reality is there's a lot of them and nobody but the garage that did the work actually know the answer.

If you are uncertain of the knowledge the current garage hold about your car, have the vehicle removed and taken to a Mercedes specialist who really do have the knowledge.
Without further information, I'm not sure what else can be said. Certainly, with glycol contamination more than just the TC needs replacing.
I'm sorry to give you news like that but from reading your posts, that's the best advice I can currently offer.
 
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Jay999

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Thanks to everyone here for your expert advice. In hind sight yes it would have been better going to a Mercedes dealer. Live and learn!
 

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