Cyclist/Scooterists with no lights.....(rant)

[EmilysDad]

Please keep up. The law was changed in 2005

http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/legality-of-cycle-lighting-accessories

I wish they'd legislate these stupidly bright lights though .... I appreciate they need to see & been seen, but some of these lights are that bright and have the aim of a WWII search light and it takes a few seconds before you regain any focus on the road in front

 

[Blobcat]

So frustrating indeed.. I agree there are also degenerate car drivers too and that probably motorcyclists are the worst.

Cycling is great as it helps reduce the cost of living for many who need that and also reduces congestions, emissions and promotes exercise.

I'm not sure I could get behind any kind of insurance or tax that would cost more than a nominal, say £50 per year. I would happily back and campaign for strong enforcement of the rules and fines to follow suit.

I remember a debate a few years ago in Ireland that it was difficult to fine a cyclist because they had no registration..well..the police don't seem to have a problems getting details out of people for other issues non driving related.

To fuel my frustration... last evening, a clown on an e-scooter crossed the road at an arbitrary point, wearing all black and no lights....as I was approaching said point. He ended up going my direction so I pulled up along side him and waived for attention.....after giving him a moment to remove his earplugs....I told him he needed to get some lights and that it was for his own safety. he sniggered (the only way I could describe it). I literally can't remember the rest as I was kind of in a rage at that point.

I feel like the police have a lot to answer for on this one.

One thing it’s not is the Polices fault.

 

[d215yq]

So frustrating indeed.. I agree there are also degenerate car drivers too and that probably motorcyclists are the worst.

Cycling is great as it helps reduce the cost of living for many who need that and also reduces congestions, emissions and promotes exercise.

I'm not sure I could get behind any kind of insurance or tax that would cost more than a nominal, say £50 per year. I would happily back and campaign for strong enforcement of the rules and fines to follow suit.

I remember a debate a few years ago in Ireland that it was difficult to fine a cyclist because they had no registration..well..the police don't seem to have a problems getting details out of people for other issues non driving related.

To fuel my frustration... last evening, a clown on an e-scooter crossed the road at an arbitrary point, wearing all black and no lights....as I was approaching said point. He ended up going my direction so I pulled up along side him and waived for attention.....after giving him a moment to remove his earplugs....I told him he needed to get some lights and that it was for his own safety. he sniggered (the only way I could describe it). I literally can't remember the rest as I was kind of in a rage at that point.

I feel like the police have a lot to answer for on this one.

However right you may be, if you drive in London and will get in a rant at every bad piece of driving/riding/crossing in front of you then you really will be quite irate everyday and not have much time to enjoy anything.

I'd personally stick to getting irate at someone who endangers your life. All this stuff is rather low level and you'd be surprised how easy it is to swerve on a bike/scooter - I'm not saying it's right - but it's not as dangerous as you think it is and the fact that there are these guys arond living to tell the tale everyday and continuing to do so without lights proves this - there are about 10 cyclist deaths in london and i think over half of those are caused in daylight by trucks turning left.

As long as you get to your destinations without risk to your life then I'd just forget about it.

 

[ajlsl600]

So frustrating indeed.. I agree there are also degenerate car drivers too and that probably motorcyclists are the worst.

Cycling is great as it helps reduce the cost of living for many who need that and also reduces congestions, emissions and promotes exercise.

I'm not sure I could get behind any kind of insurance or tax that would cost more than a nominal, say £50 per year. I would happily back and campaign for strong enforcement of the rules and fines to follow suit.

I remember a debate a few years ago in Ireland that it was difficult to fine a cyclist because they had no registration..well..the police don't seem to have a problems getting details out of people for other issues non driving related.

To fuel my frustration... last evening, a clown on an e-scooter crossed the road at an arbitrary point, wearing all black and no lights....as I was approaching said point. He ended up going my direction so I pulled up along side him and waived for attention.....after giving him a moment to remove his earplugs....I told him he needed to get some lights and that it was for his own safety. he sniggered (the only way I could describe it). I literally can't remember the rest as I was kind of in a rage at that point.

I feel like the police have a lot to answer for on this one.

when someone makes this type of issue a revenue stream all will change. yr idea £50 a yr tax/ inss rolled into one is a fair plan .over 18,s

 

[rorywquin]

Please keep up. The law was changed in 2005

http://www.cyclelaw.co.uk/legality-of-cycle-lighting-accessories

As I had already 'liked" a post that followed mine ......perhaps take some of your own advise

 

[rorywquin]

......................

I remember a debate a few years ago in Ireland that it was difficult to fine a cyclist because they had no registration..well..the police don't seem to have a problems getting details out of people for other issues non driving related.

.

When I was a kid we had to get a license for our bicycles. It was a brightly coloured tag (colour changed every year) that bolted to the axle, saddle or handle bar with the existing bolts. No reason why we couldn't have a similar idea here. With more and more bikes on the road - something has to be done to control the feral element of cyclists (sadly there seems to be more of them than law abiding riders).

 

[js190d]

Can you quote the directive?

Sadly i can, and if you have a few days spare to read through it all you can look up pages on europa.eu which explain legislation which applies to all member states. This obligation is quite expicit and i quote..
"Entry into Force. This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States."
EC 443/2009
EU 510/2011
European Union Ambient Air Quality Directive (2008/50/EC)
Euro 6 standards (459/2012/EC)
Euro 1-5 standards

 

[d215yq]

Sadly i can, and if you have a few days spare to read through it all you can look up pages on europa.eu which explain legislation which applies to all member states. This obligation is quite expicit and i quote..
"Entry into Force. This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States."
EC 443/2009
EU 510/2011
European Union Ambient Air Quality Directive (2008/50/EC)
Euro 6 standards (459/2012/EC)
Euro 1-5 standards

I work with Eu legislation allbeit in a different area (taxes) in my job...all those directives state (and yes they do have full effect and are binding) is that new cars on sale have to meet certain pollution targets (Euro 5/6, etc) and how they are tested. At no point does it mention road tax nor what you can/can't do with your old car.

Road tax is not harmonised across Europe (Ireland it is 2-3k a year I think) and is based on engine size in some places, "tax bhp" in others and cylinders in others. Granted, many more countries are using the Euro 6 figures as it's easier than having your whole set of rules/loopholes/calculations.

The banning of older vehicles on the EU4/5/6 criteria is being introduced in many places (Barcelona, Madrid in Spain) for example and this is not dictated to by the EU. It is, in part, in response to the EU laws that state that NOX should not go above a certain level in any city. Hence in Madrid and Barcelona older vehicles are banned only on days of high pollution, no blanket ban (it's typically 2 weeks a year you can't go there).

Now of course, in the UK rather than make the rules as above to fit with the EU, they decided unilaterally to just make the bans complete and absolute all the time even on the days of no pollution. That's because, in general, the UK politicians want to and always have wanted to go a lot further than the EU in controlling it's population and ensure people buy as many new cars as they can. This is heped by the fact that the Uk population in general are much happier being controlled and grassing on petty law breaking and abiding by the rules than Europe, and of course also want to have an excuse to buy new shiny things on credit more than other Eu countries too. If you think any of this will improve after brexit I think you will actually find the opposite, the UK will make even more ridiculous rules now as it has to think up its own legislation; at current it has been limited in part by just lazily following the EU rules in many areas rather than create it's own even more invasive meddling.

In summary:

New cars being Eu6 = fault of EU
Cities banning older vehicles occasionally when polution is high = fault of EU
Road tax regime in UK = fault of Uk government
Blanket bans on Euro 3/4 and older cars in cities such as london = local government fault (with help from national UK government supporting/funding)

 

[Conor]

In Ireland it used to be based on engine displacement but since June 2008 it has been based on CO2 emission. Either way you cut it.. anything above 2000cc is expensive to tax in reality.

 

[js190d]

Well i think that is a very good summary d125yq of the current situation.
The directives/ legislation do not need to mention local / national car tax VED rates as the framework for encouraging / discouraging vehicle use is set for the whole of the EU and as you rightly say imposed locally.
Personally i don't think it takes much of a leap of faith to see that this framework is ultimately uninterpretable and will end badly for all drivers in the EU with draconian tax laws.
You have to remember that these targets are arrived at by the Eu commision in conjuction with the car industry. Call me a cynic but the car industry means the German car industry which does not have the best record in telling the truth re- emmisions.
The Euro 6 etc standards again are based on figures gained in a laboratory not on the road. In summary it's all a load of old cobblers!
As for the situation improving post Brexit ( i prefer to call it by it's real name Independance) who knows but at least the British public are willing to take that chance to potentially improve things.

 

[d215yq]

Well i think that is a very good summary d125yq of the current situation.
The directives/ legislation do not need to mention local / national car tax VED rates as the framework for encouraging / discouraging vehicle use is set for the whole of the EU and as you rightly say imposed locally.
Personally i don't think it takes much of a leap of faith to see that this framework is ultimately uninterpretable and will end badly for all drivers in the EU with draconian tax laws.
You have to remember that these targets are arrived at by the Eu commision in conjuction with the car industry. Call me a cynic but the car industry means the German car industry which does not have the best record in telling the truth re- emmisions.
The Euro 6 etc standards again are based on figures gained in a laboratory not on the road. In summary it's all a load of old cobblers!
As for the situation improving post Brexit ( i prefer to call it by it's real name Independance) who knows but at least the British public are willing to take that chance to potentially improve things.

I agree re the car manufacturering industry and emissions as being a scam... Besides, the climate emergency that I, and it seems many people believe in, is not localised NOX but caused by C02 which is proportional to mpg. As such my W124 under my usage that gets 50mpg is better for the environment than a new one with 45mpg. It's also quite comical that all these people who campaign against single used plastics in bottles and stuff are encourgaing people to scrap good old 15 yr old cars for NOX targets. There's plenty more plastic (and more complex recycling) involved in scrapping old cars than a few drinks bottles and plastic bags.

Essentially, we'd all be healthier and better off environmentally if they just said don't buy anything you don't need and try to cycle/walk in cities when the weather allows and do car sharing. The trouble is that's incompatible with basic capitalism and lobbyists so instead the environment is just shamelessly used to boost new sales of "more efficient" stuff (which often in the real world is as inefficient or a percentage point improvement on the old goods)...

I'm not a brexiter but if you want independence fair enough, I would say though that I've yet to see a country in Europe as materialistic, as obsessed with regulation and with as many people doing as they're told than in the UK. So I feel the British public/parliament/councils in the UK will be making things worse not better. I mean a case in point is this very thread where it seems the solution to some e scooters and cyclists driving around with the wrong kind of lights is a mandatory registration/tax/licence/insurance scheme for all such scooters/cyclists... whilst at the same time moaning about road tax for cars... That would be seen as some kind of crackpot authoritarianism if you suggested it out here!

 

[AnthonyUK]

As I had already 'liked" a post that followed mine ......perhaps take some of your own advise

1 day vs 14 years
Hardly comparable.

 

[js190d]

Well said Sir! The whole notion of saving the environment through consuming more stuff is such a crock. If the powers that be really wanted to solve perceived enviromental issues consumers would be encouraged to own a car for say 10 years or more and get incentives for doing so.
Getting a new car every year would be discouraged through taxation. This would force manufacturers to make there products more durable and not have in built obsolencence.
Sadly, as you mention, current lobbying by car manufacturers would never allow this.
I won't mention of course that the centre of lobbying activities in Europe just happens to be Brussels, and it is the EU commision in conjuction with car manufacturers that make the rules.
I don't disagree with your analysis of the UK populations materialism one bit!
By the way my 190d has over 300000 miles on it now so i have beaten your 300d for enviromental cred in my brave new world.

 

[AnthonyUK]

I mean a case in point is this very thread where it seems the solution to some e scooters and cyclists driving around with the wrong kind of lights is a mandatory registration/tax/licence/insurance scheme for all such scooters/cyclists... whilst at the same time moaning about road tax for cars...

Totally agree. The main issue with any of these 'crackpot' ideas is that the law abiding folks are the ones most affected and the criminals and less law abiding continue to exploit those laws and regulations.

There are some people on here, no names needed, who really need re-read the highway code and imagine they are a cyclist for a non-driver centric view point.

Some people appear to believe that because they are taxed (for emissions), they have a right over everyone else on the road.
I don't know the actual figures but I would assume that a large number of cyclists also own a vehicle.

 

[LostKiwi]

Road tax is not harmonised across Europe (Ireland it is 2-3k a year I think) and is based on engine size in some places, "tax bhp" in others and cylinders in others.

Exactly my understanding. Road tax is not something that can laid at the door of the EU with a note saying "Your fault".

 

[Frontstep]

Road Tax collection is a function of the EU galileo satellite project, super accurate money collection is coming.

“This is a tax, not a toll. It aims to collect a new tax reliably and fairly according to distance travelled"

https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/...road-applications-attract-interest-vienna-its

Big brother is sitting in the sky, waiting.

We I assume will be using the one Theresa ordered .

I struggle to believe the EU won't try to centralise the tax collection it will be so huge but for some parts of the world collection will be subsidised by let's say the more compliant.

 

[A.J.]

Road Tax collection is a function of the EU galileo satellite project, super accurate money collection is coming.

“This is a tax, not a toll. It aims to collect a new tax reliably and fairly according to distance travelled"

https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/...road-applications-attract-interest-vienna-its

Big brother is sitting in the sky, waiting.

We I assume will be using the one Theresa ordered .

Should we finally Brexit will we be excluded from Galileo project despite our financial input when members of the EU ? That would mean if we wanted to utilise Galileo we would have to pay heavily for the privilege rather than be a part of it ?

 

[Frontstep]

Should we finally Brexit will we be excluded from Galileo project despite our financial input when members of the EU ?

We already have been I think but these things are so fluid.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/01/galileo-britain-set-build-rival-satellite-system/

 

[Conor]

We already have been I think but these things are so fluid.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/01/galileo-britain-set-build-rival-satellite-system/

Ok such a kind way with words... I would say the whole is a fricking mess lmao.

 

[AnthonyUK]

The whole philosophy behind VED will need to change as people move to electric. The government will still need to raise those £££s somehow.
I can see a pay per use model being the way forward but this is going to be nearly as divisive as BREXIT