Depreciation vs Maintenance.

[Ron240]

There's probably people on Fridge or dishwasher forums who would think some of us are mental for not replacing automatically our 5 year old working dishwashers with something with WIFI capability or wondering why someone who is "set up for life" makes do with a Bosch instead of a Miele.

My washing machine is 7 years old and still works perfectly (touchwood), and the dishwasher is me.
In fact while I'm thinking about it my fridge freezer is 19 years old.

This has been an advert for Hotpoint.

 

[MBDevotee]

I don't believe that anyone who could comfortably afford to buy a new car would choose to buy a 2nd hand (as they used to be known) car instead.

Why??

What on earth is the pleasure in buying a Brand new car? You go to the showroom, pick the colour and spec, and wait a few weeks (12 weeks if it's a factory order). Then it arrives and you go to pick it up. If you are lucky nothing goes wrong in the meantime or at handover and you drive away. For the next 6 months you park it 300 yards away from everyone else for the desperate fear of scratching it..... You drive past a dealership that has a similar car on the forecourt £10,000 less than you paid for yours.... and then one day one of the kids is sick in the back, and it doesn't smell "new" any more...... And then it happens, you find the first scratch / stone chip / parking dink and you cry inside.... but also you are a bit relieved, because now it's just a car, and you can actually enjoy it without worrying......

Buying a used car you check it for any dinks, marks or chips before you buy it, and then never check it again - if you see a scratch it's a bugg*r yes, but you don't worry about it! There is huge satisfaction tracking down the right colour / interior option and the key extras you want. You know you saved £3000, £10000 or in the case of the kind of car I'd buy if I were rich about £50,000 on the price and got pretty much exactly the same car as the person who bought it new did for a fraction of the price!

There are some cars I'd buy new - Aerial Atom (don't depreciate hardly at all) or some cars that just never come on the market second hand, but overall, no I would not buy a new car no matter how much money I had.

In fact, if you've bought 10 new cars of about £40,000 over the years, that's probably how much money you've lost compared to buying a 2 year old one....

If you buy new, and keep it 20 years, I realise that you only suffer that depreciation hit once in 20 years..... however you could still have bought a 1 year old one, and taken 1/3 of the depreciation hit - and if you keep the car 1 year or 20 years it doesn't matter, the saving is still huge.

As said previously, I have had brand new cars most of my life because of my job, but a few of the jobs we've run ex-factory cars about a year old with 10k on them and if you could tell the difference between a new one and a six month old one with 5,000 miles on, you are buying a really bad car - because ANY decent car will not have deteriorated one jot in that time. The last Merc I had was 10 years old with 100,000 miles on it - and I agree totally, that car had signs of wear, the seats were slightly less supportive, a few things broke through age and so on - so if I was mega rich I wouldn't buy something THAT old.... but 3 years old with 30k miles on - that's 50% (or even less) of the original price, yes absolutely that is what I'd buy.....

And with what I'd save over the years doing that I'd buy this:-

Windy Khamsin 34 Used Boat for Sale 2003

Used 2003 Windy Khamsin 34 for sale in Poole, United Kingdom. Priced at 88,500 GBP.

www.theyachtmarket.com

New it cost about £200,000 - now it's £88,000 and will probably not depreciate any more over the next 5 years..........

 

[jimbg]

Now you are getting into my hobby!

You can buy boats and loose no money at all, I bought one of these for £250k in 1990 and ran it for 3 years and got my money back.

Boats for Sale - YachtWorld

Find new or used boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of boats to choose from.

www.yachtworld.co.uk

Today a new one would be over a million pounds, buy the right one and it can be fairly "cheap" boating, ignoring mooring fees, maintenance and fuel!

 

[Ron240]

What on earth is the pleasure in buying a Brand new car?

I have done it 6 times since 2012 and it has literally been the most pleasure I have had with my clothes on.
September 2017 maybe not so much initially because I had a funny turn upon arriving at the dealership and an ambulance had to be called for me.
All was well in the end though and I was able to complete the sale and was delighted.

This debate is genuinely very interesting because people appear to be almost polar opposites on the subject, with the used car brigade currently winning I think.

 

[MBDevotee]

Now you are getting into my hobby!

You can buy boats and loose no money at all, I bought one of these for £250k in 1990 and ran it for 3 years and got my money back.

Boats for Sale - YachtWorld

Find new or used boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of boats to choose from.

www.yachtworld.co.uk

Today a new one would be over a million pounds, buy the right one and it can be fairly "cheap" boating, ignoring mooring fees, maintenance and fuel!

Seriously nice piece of cruising kit.... Way beyond any budget I can dream of mind.....

Boats don't really loose money after the first couple of years depreciation - but jees, marina fees, fuel, and everything else is the most enjoyable way I've ever found to throw thousands of pounds away - how the hell people add depreciation into that as well I don't know!!

I have never lost any money on any of my boats - from a 10' inflatable - bought for £100 and sold for £300, a Maxum speedboat bought for £3400 and sold for £4000 and a Rinker 260V bought for £14000 and sold for £15000 3 years later........

But the best, my Dad who bought a Buckingham 20 for £325 and sold 18 years later for £3800........... but admittedly over that time he did re-build the whole interior!

I'm still in the Sportscruiser mode - but when I retire, if I had the money I'd be tempted by something like that Fleming for serious liveaboarding....

 

[MBDevotee]

Perhaps I'm weird, I like the challenge of finding exactly what I want secondhand.

When I bought the CLK 320 I wanted a 430 in black with the 19" AMG's - but then the 320 came along and it was just beautiful. Had every extra possible, looked wonderful and I actually really liked the sound of the V6 so bought it.

I looked at hundreds of ML's before I bought the one I did on eBay - didn't actually travel around the country, but online. The eBay ad was truly appalling, just 1 pic, of the leather on the drivers seat, and the ad just said "ML500 - nice condition". But when I got the telephone number of the guy it was like heaven. He knew nothing about cars at all, so had it serviced by the local Merc Indie - I got the reg and found it had nearly £30,000 of extras on it (I didn't know an ML of that age could HAVE that many extras) and he went outside and walked around it whilst I was on the phone telling me about every single chip and rust spot (not many). I was the only bidder and got it for the starting price, which I reckon was about £1500 below it's value..

Picking that car up was great, I'd hoped it was a good one - turned out to be near perfect - I paid £3000 for a car that was over £80000 new - and although by then it was a bit dated, it did EXACTLY what I needed a car to do - for no money at all really.

Walking into a dealer and just ordering something holds no appeal - but I guess I live in a dealership all day every day, and have had new cars most of my working life - I certainly wouldn't buy a new one with my own money...

 

[robin.large]

The problem is, for me, that we get channeled into a way of existing that isn't truthfully what makes us happy. Win or earn a bundle, invest, buy properties for rental returns, buy a big house etc.
I've done most of that, been divorced a couple of times, lost everything but the shirt on my back blah blah!
Now? If I had any choice I'd buy a canal or narrow boat. Move around a bit, watch the world go by, talk to people, drink in local pub, cycle a bit, worry about solar panel efficiency.
In the meantime i drive a CLS63 which I love, live in a house that doubles as B&B, (Covid permitting) work from home as a management consultant, worry about taxes.
Things change.
Oh. Going back to the thread, don't forget about the road tax hit from a new car! Hateful!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

[MBDevotee]

The problem is, for me, that we get channeled into a way of existing that isn't truthfully what makes us happy. Win or earn a bundle, invest, buy properties for rental returns, buy a big house etc.
I've done most of that, been divorced a couple of times, lost everything but the shirt on my back blah blah!
Now? If I had any choice I'd buy a canal or narrow boat. Move around a bit, watch the world go by, talk to people, drink in local pub, cycle a bit, worry about solar panel efficiency.
In the meantime i drive a CLS63 which I love, live in a house that doubles as B&B, (Covid permitting) work from home as a management consultant, worry about taxes.
Things change.
Oh. Going back to the thread, don't forget about the road tax hit from a new car! Hateful!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

It's true.....

I'd love to win the lottery, not to be able to buy loads of stuff (I don't dispute that would be nice) but for financial security.

I would love to be able to not have a mortgage or rent, to have a nice car that I enjoyed and yes, a nice boat would be lovely, but I could really enjoy a 5-10k boat almost as much as a £80k super sports cruiser. I would love to be able to leave my kids a ton of money when I go, because I fear for them now house prices have gone beyond what I see as "affordable" for a lot of our kids (or even older people like me that have been hit later in life).

But I am happier now than I was in a marriage that was bad, despite having a boat, house, nice car etc back then. Because none of that makes any of us happy in itself..... (Wow some serious fred drift here this evening).

But whilst I would love to be in a position where I could go out and buy the things I'd like - I know that I wouldn't be massively happier, just much more secure.....

 

[robin.large]

Maslow's hierarchy again. Security is high on the list isn't it?
In a different life I was in the Himalayas, hiking in awesome mountains. I met an elderly lady (70's) her job was carrying rocks on a construction site. She earned the equivalent of £2 a week. Even on India rates that wasn't much.
It made me think long and hard about my values.
I am grateful for all I have, but still chase impossible unrealistic dreams. And drive cars that can exceed the speed limits at least twice over!

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[rorywquin]

Why??

What on earth is the pleasure in buying a Brand new car? You go to the showroom, pick the colour and spec, and wait a few weeks (12 weeks if it's a factory order). Then it arrives and you go to pick it up. If you are lucky nothing goes wrong in the meantime or at handover and you drive away. For the next 6 months you park it 300 yards away from everyone else for the desperate fear of scratching it..... You drive past a dealership that has a similar car on the forecourt £10,000 less than you paid for yours 1) I Said comfortably afford and I truly don't care what my car is worth, I bought it for the pleasure of driving it and am not obsessed about depreciation, when I sell the car, I'll get what I get '...cèst la vie'... and then one day one of the kids is sick in the back, and it doesn't smell "new" any more 2) Same happens to the long sought after carefully curated used car no matter what the age of teh car, kids can vomit in the car, but better that than than some previous owner's stink...... And then it happens, you find the first scratch / stone chip / parking dink and you cry inside 3) Why , it is a chunk of metal that can be repaired and you are implying that you don't care about your "great used car deal" that you searched long and hard for.....just park it anywhere and let it get dinged and chipped....do you really? but also you are a bit relieved, because now it's just a car, and you can actually enjoy it without worrying......

Buying a used car you check it for any dinks, marks or chips before you buy it, and then never check it again - if you see a scratch it's a bugg*r yes, but you don't worry about it! There is huge satisfaction tracking down the right colour / interior option and the key extras you want.No more so than ordering a pristine car new from the dealer to the EXACT specification you want- for me there, is more to life than traipsing around used car lots of dodgy selllers & searching months or years for right car, but each to their own..You know you saved £3000, £10000 or in the case of the kind of car I'd buy if I were rich about £50,000 on the price and got pretty much exactly the same car as the person who bought it new did for a fraction of the price The premise was 'comfortably afford', you can't take the money with you....!

There are some cars I'd buy new - Aerial Atom (don't depreciate hardly at all) or some cars that just never come on the market second hand, but overall, no I would not buy a new car no matter how much money I had We'll chat again when you win the lottery, you might find there is more to life than hunting around for some old car to save a few £.

In fact, if you've bought 10 new cars of about £40,000 over the years, that's probably how much money you've lost compared to buying a 2 year old one....again some folk don't care about saving a few pennies.....

If you buy new, and keep it 20 years, I realise that you only suffer that depreciation hit once in 20 years..... however you could still have bought a 1 year old one, and taken 1/3 of the depreciation hit - and if you keep the car 1 year or 20 years it doesn't matter, the saving is still huge.

As said previously, I have had brand new cars most of my life because of my job, but a few of the jobs we've run ex-factory cars about a year old with 10k on them and if you could tell the difference between a new one and a six month old one with 5,000 miles on, you are buying a really bad car - because ANY decent car will not have deteriorated one jot in that time. The last Merc I had was 10 years old with 100,000 miles on it - and I agree totally, that car had signs of wear, the seats were slightly less supportive, a few things broke through age and so on - so if I was mega rich I wouldn't buy something THAT old.... but 3 years old with 30k miles on - that's 50% (or even less) of the original price, yes absolutely that is what I'd buy.....

And with what I'd save over the years doing that I'd buy this:-

Windy Khamsin 34 Used Boat for Sale 2003

Used 2003 Windy Khamsin 34 for sale in Poole, United Kingdom. Priced at 88,500 GBP.

www.theyachtmarket.com

New it cost about £200,000 - now it's £88,000 and will probably not depreciate any more over the next 5 years..........

Comments in red above.

Some like new cars, you don't want to drive a pristine new car (when you win the lottery, let's review that ) . Fine.

I know and have known some seriously wealthy people (even related to some but unfortunately I'm not one of them). Some enjoy their money and others count every penny. I can tell you which of them is happier and it ain't the penny counters.

We're all different.

 

[rorywquin]

I know several that always buy pre owned, maybe a year old. My mothers W204 was 13 months old when she bought it, ex MB fleet with 5k on the clock and £11k off list, what's not to like and it came with a 3 year service pack

Yep there are exceptions to everything. I could say people don't want to die, but I'm sure there are a few that do etc.

 

[AnthonyUK]

Well I won some money on Euro millions and I'm going to blow the lot....on two litres of Super Unleaded.
£2.80 doesn't go far these days.

 

[s5tuart]

Perhaps I'm weird, I like the challenge of finding exactly what I want secondhand.

When I bought the CLK 320 I wanted a 430 in black with the 19" AMG's - but then the 320 came along and it was just beautiful. Had every extra possible, looked wonderful and I actually really liked the sound of the V6 so bought it.

I looked at hundreds of ML's before I bought the one I did on eBay - didn't actually travel around the country, but online. The eBay ad was truly appalling, just 1 pic, of the leather on the drivers seat, and the ad just said "ML500 - nice condition". But when I got the telephone number of the guy it was like heaven. He knew nothing about cars at all, so had it serviced by the local Merc Indie - I got the reg and found it had nearly £30,000 of extras on it (I didn't know an ML of that age could HAVE that many extras) and he went outside and walked around it whilst I was on the phone telling me about every single chip and rust spot (not many). I was the only bidder and got it for the starting price, which I reckon was about £1500 below it's value..

Picking that car up was great, I'd hoped it was a good one - turned out to be near perfect - I paid £3000 for a car that was over £80000 new - and although by then it was a bit dated, it did EXACTLY what I needed a car to do - for no money at all really.

Walking into a dealer and just ordering something holds no appeal - but I guess I live in a dealership all day every day, and have had new cars most of my working life - I certainly wouldn't buy a new one with my own money...

I agree with this. It took me a while and a lot of patience to find my CLS shooting brake with all the extras I wanted on it.
I paid a tad over £20K for a 4 year old 28K miles car that cost £50K new. I got the dealer to pay for a new set of tyres because the car had been standing for a year too. My car is my pride and joy and whilst there's still a couple of things it doesn't have (cooled seats, V8 soundtrack) it has 95% of the extras I was looking for and is the best car I've ever had, beating even my old 129 for the joy it gives me.
a new one wouldn't give me any more satisfaction than this "old banger"

 

[AndySlade]

It is I suppose why some people keep their cars long term and others swap very regularly. Some feel the need to scratch that itch of something 'new', and possibly have reassurance of lower mileage better reliability. I prefer older (and simpler), not a great fan of new Mercs either in styling or complexity, but now approaching 200,000 miles on current car, thinking about changing, but not going anywhere at moment. Have it serviced at MBS and is better bodywork wise than many newer cars.

 

[MBDevotee]

Comments in red above.

Some like new cars, you don't want to drive a pristine new car (when you win the lottery, let's review that ) . Fine.

I know and have known some seriously wealthy people (even related to some but unfortunately I'm not one of them). Some enjoy their money and others count every penny. I can tell you which of them is happier and it ain't the penny counters.

We're all different.

I agree we are all different, and in reality we all “waste” some of our money in different ways spending it on something that gives us pleasure.

However violent depreciation (as opposed to a slow dropping in values) is to me a total waste. You say you are not in the “fabulously wealthy” band, but you are very well off indeed if you bought a SL400 new - I imagine that car was north of £80,000 new when exactly the same car 12 months old would be in perfect condition, have no more than running in miles and probably be 25% less cost - so if you can afford to throw away £20,000 you are (in my book anyhow) seriously wealthy, and in my experience seriously wealthy people are not stupid, but that kind of loss is just crazy to me, even if I DID have the money.

I am not saying you are “wrong” I’m saying I just don’t see why someone, even someone wealthy, would choose to pay £20,000 more for exactly the same thing!

Tell me, did you haggle, or just pay full screen price?

 

[MBDevotee]

This sort of proves my point but on this model not as much as I’d suspected as the new car has £22,000 off! I must confess I didn’t know Merc did 15% + discount on new.....

New car - should be £80,000

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102048702958

Pretty much new car pretty much same spec - about £25000 cheaper! Or £34,000 cheaper than new with 3000 miles on which is not even run in yet.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012227339803

Obviously if I was actually buying I would take the time to look for the exact colour, interior etc I wanted, there is certainly no shortage.

So no, I assure you, even if I won the lottery I would not be inclined to just throw away £30,000! I’d actually rather buy the used one and give some money to a good charity!

 

[Ron240]

This sort of proves my point but on this model not as much as I’d suspected as the new car has £22,000 off! I must confess I didn’t know Merc did 15% + discount on new.....

New car - should be £80,000

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102048702958

But that car is brand new, it is not used.
The point of this debate in its simplest form is does one buy brand new or used cars.

 

[MBDevotee]

So here’s a car I might buy for myself if I won the lottery - which I didn’t

So I would haggle and I’m still not sure I could bring myself to pay £100k + for ANY car...... but......

So what would that have cost new? £150k? More? It is the colour I’d choose new, the colour leather, it has the cooled seats, the distribution and so on - so convince me why on earth I’d pay 50% more for exactly the same thing just to be the first person to drive it out on the open road for longer than a few miles (because even new cars have been driven, they have been parked outside, they’ve been rained on......) so what exactly do I get for my extra money.

 

[MBDevotee]

But that car is brand new, it is not used.
The point of this debate in its simplest form is does one buy brand new or used cars.

The first one is brand new, the second is used....

 

[MBDevotee]

And lemme tell you another story....

I worked for a certain car dealer about 30 years ago I will not name.

On July 31st (The day before the new plate) we had all the showroom filled with handovers, the workshop full of the afternoon handovers and to fit them all in, the late afternoon handovers up on the ramps.

One of our technicians accidentally leant on a switch and managed to drop a small saloon onto a large limousine denting and scratching it’s roof.........

Major panic, screaming, frantic calls to dent repairers......

Later that afternoon the customer drove away in his new car that cost as much as a house at the time with a slightly less than perfect roof and the paint was almost dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He never knew.....

Probably 5% of the new cars arrive at our dealership with some form of transporter damage. (Did you know a car transporter is slightly taller than many trees overhanging the roads in the UK - check your roofs on a new car is all I’m saying) so how “new” is your “new” car??

So I guess what I mean, is every car is “used” - they have all been driven, parked outside, maybe even dented or scratched....... you pay a massive premium to be the first owner in the book, but so what? What does that actually do for you?