Diesel engine re-mapping

[HKG3A3]

We have a local lad who engine-rempas, with some pretty bold claims.

45bhp extra, 10mpg more, 60nm of torque you know the sorts.

Now he re-maps not chips it, takes him about an hour, he's done my boss's x5 which he says feels realy different and well, and sure enough his mpg has gone up.

Now the synic in me is rearing his ugly head. The mpg thing could have been altered and the rest is in his head......(you can see i dont believe him)

But have any of you level headed chaps re-mapped there mercs with obvious Fact founded improvements?

Ive seen brabus chips, and there so much more than £200 and him spending an hour in your motor in the car park, is this for a reason that they actualy work.

(ps) i know the theory around chipping and re-mapping/how it suppose to work, just incase.:Oops:

 

[Silver_Star]

I think you have just opened the can of worms again

The only way to see if the remap has indeed yielded increased economy is with brim to brim results before and after for a good few tanks of fuel.

The trip computer displaying one result after a remap and the actual economy are 2 different things.

I would also be wary of mapping up a 220. A 200 to 220 yes but the 270 has a bigger torque convertor for a reason.

 

[Alex Crow]

this has been discussed, or rather debated, at great length. whilst there are many who believe the claims of increased MPG, we have yet to see any evidence of this based on repeated tankful to tankful tests - usually any calls for this sort of imperical proof leads to nought. often we hear that mpg is improved, but that the increase in bhp has cancelled it out (whatever). the displayed mpg is known to be of varying accuracy, and often thought to be skewed in some way or other by the remap, so no conclusions from this.

one salient point remains though, if it were possible to increase MPG by 10mpg or 15% as often claimed without any negative effects, THE MANUFACTURERS WOULD BE DOING IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and forget claims of vehicles being tuned to run on all types of different fuels around the world, MB cars have so many details that vary depending on which market they are sold in, adding engine mapping to this list would be no problem.

 

[dieselman]

Different diesel fuel wouldn't require timing alterations anyway, so the old line about different tuning for different fuels is myth.

 

[rf065]

I read an Auto Express or similar mag which said next months issue would contain a report on a remapped diesel which would prove that more power & mpg were available for very little money.

When it arrived, they tested the car on the road and on the dyno to prove that the power gains were real, this was never in doubt anyway. As for the increased MPG, they glossed over this & merely commented that increased MPG should be possible. I suspect there were no MPG increases at all & they did not want to offend the company that provided the free re-maps for them.

Russ

 

[television]

Well put Russ and probably correct, also not mentioned again is the wrong torque converter one you have upped the BHP

 

[HelpThisDude]

I had my C270 mapped with a huge tuning firm that have a car in BTCC (not showing off, just so you understand it was not micky mouse and his friends)

Power was all top end (really, really fast from 70mph+ and up....so once your braking UK law...)
MPG tested for two weeks on my usual commutes, was the same.
But the computer lied to me more then it did before.

I got as full refund and had the old map (saved during the upgrade) programmed back in.

 

[Developer]

I've not noticed better fuel consumption over my previous E Class, but I'm employing the "point and squirt" approach to driving much more often because it's so intoxicating.

I suspect that "increased performance with increased economy" is an oxymoron.

I've got a long journey coming up next week so I'll report back.

 

[st4]

John, yours is a little different, you've never had a normal V6 cdi. Only the brabus one, your old motor, entirely different lump and MPG on that I'd wager may be better. I'd just enjoy the power....

 

[carloss]

I read an Auto Express or similar mag which said next months issue would contain a report on a remapped diesel which would prove that more power & mpg were available for very little money.

More bhp and less fuel consumption your having a laugh

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

if your an honest guy you can never sell your car onto a genuine prospective buyer once you have had your car chipped. it is stupid IMHO to think that the manufacturers do not set up the engine management to provide the best overall performance.

the people who provide this type of "free lunch" tuning probably do mileage correction as well allowing people to buy a car at 60,000 miles on the clock when the car has really covered 120,000 miles.

i remember some of our company car owners who were in fairly senior positions being dismissed when they were caught having their cars chipped for more performance, never any more ecconomy.
it's the buy one get one free brigade IMHO, if you put a good driver in a standard merc and a driver who has been chipped, who do you think will get where they are going first. ? herbiemercman.

 

[joe_c220]

2009 c220cdi sport

I have recently bought a new c220 cdi sport, any opinions on whether to get it chipped or not?

New to mercedes, and not 100% clued up on them.

Cheers

Joe

 

[M80]

I would think these days most people would 'chip' for economy given the choice, I know I would.

The owner of the MOT station I go to also operates a haulage firm. I think they run Volvo's, these they chip / tune. I can't imagine he would do this to give his drivers better power or torque but does say the consumtion improves from 7mpg to 8mpg.

Given that last year I spent close on £3k on diesel a 10% saving would be well worth chipping for. I just haven't heard any 1st hand accounts that support this as a result.

 

[HKG3A3]

There is also a school of thought, that manufacturers have to meet emission regs when they leave the factory, and the car also has to go through and out the other end of a warranty also....hense under tuning the engine.

Agh i dont know, there's not many of us willing to say "ive put one in my diesel its amazing" are there

 

[oigle]

There is also a school of thought, that manufacturers have to meet emission regs when they leave the factory, and the car also has to go through and out the other end of a warranty also....hense under tuning the engine.

Agh i dont know, there's not many of us willing to say "ive put one in my diesel its amazing" are there

I remapped my ML270 motor 7 years and 100000km ago and have never regretted doing so. I did not do it for power or economy reasons, strange as that may seem. I was REALLY concerned at the turbo lag from a standing start and/or low revs. Was quite dangerous trying to slot into a vacant spot on a roundabout etc. By the time the motor reacted to throttle, the gap was fast closing and then, with added panic throttle input, the thing would finally take off like a scalded cat - not pleasant driving. The remap completely fixed the issue. As an extra bonus, there is certainly a better level of throttle response and performance overall. I have never noticed any change in economy - better or worse. I tow a caravan regularly and use the extra torque a lot. No ill effects on any other mechanical components so far - 112K. Don't expect any.

 

[HKG3A3]

Excellent, thanks friend.......

I do like the ML series aswell, possibly a next purchase in 3 years time when this is paid for.

Its looking like i will get a re-map the reports are coming in in positive for the mapping.

 

[jberks]

If you want better driveability, power and fun from your diesel then a good remap is certainly the way to go.
However - know what you're doing.
Remaps work by increasing boost and fuel flow. (They're not magic - thats all they're doing!) They're simply using some of the slack the manufacturer leaves in to allow for poor fuel and to keep stress down on the mechanicals. So there's nothing fundamentally wrong with mapping.
But
1) More fuel. - they don't replace the injectors so they must keep them open longer in the cycle, allowing more fuel through. Injectors wear. So, by effectively using them more per cycle, you reduce their lifespan.
2) Turbo - again, more stress for longer = shorter life.
3) Drivetrain - again - more torque, shorter life.
How much shorter life you'll get is debateable, and as I recently saw an E270 for sale with 450,000 on the clock, it may not be too much of a concern, but you need to be aware that with you may need injectors earlier.

On mpg - In theory, as you get more power per cycle, you should be able to reduce the cycles accordingly by changing up earlier. BUT - they don't change the gearing so its down to you to swap gogs earlier. However, you're still pumping in more fuel so it's always going to be a tricky calculation and I suspect one will mostly contra the other and you'll gain nothing. Plus, as most MB's are autos, the opportunity for early changes are limited.

 

[Captain Chris]

I have made my opions regrding re mapping before so I won't do so again but there are two issues I can't help asking myself ; Firstly, are we now starting to ask too much from our cars and secondly , with so much choice in the model ranges why do people not seem to be able to buy the cars they really want/ need without having to further modify them after purchase?

At one time in the not too distant past one could only choose from a couple of petrol engines or a diesel engine for given model range from most of the big manufacturers, so it was a relatively easy choice; small petrol - cheap to run and service, big petrol - power, diesel - economy. Nowadays the choice is far more specific, with Mercedes an an example, in each of the model ranges there a number of small medium and large diesels, for a choice of power and economy, plus some big petrol engines too, for outright power. So with so much to choose from why an earth do people still need to modify an engine? With such a choice to start with why is it not possible to buy exactly what you want, therfore negating the need to modify - with all of the possible pitfalls or consequences of doing so.?

I have read the posts on re mapping and seen all of the arguments for and against, but I'm sorry to say I still don't see why it needs to be done. For example; '" My car needs more power" - then why didn't you buy the model with the bigger engine in the first place?

Am I being too simplistic here? Or is there so much to choose from now that we don't get our choices right in the first place or are we now asking too much from the modern engines? Personally I think we have just about reached the maximum limit of efficiency from mass produced internal combustion engines and should accept that and stop trying to mess with the very complex systems that are needed to produce the power and economy that we get from the factory.

 

[dieselman]

I have this information about Diesel engine re-mapping "By Remapping the vehicle ECU we can increase BHP,torque and fuel economy by utilizing tuning experience and using the latest in tuning technology the drive ability of your vehicle will be seriously improved without compromising the vehicles reliability..maybe this can help you..

Thanks

Diesel chip

Well, there's a first....


Why are EGTs Important.

Diesel engines are not indestructible. Aside from running a diesel without oil, or filling the fuel tank with gasoline instead of diesel fuel, few things will damage or kill a diesel engine faster than excessive exhaust gas temperature (EGT), yet strangely enough, no diesel 4WDs or motorhomes come equipped with a pyrometer as standard equipment to monitor EGT. During normal operation of such vehicles, EGTs usually stay within safe limits, but situations can occur when power add-ons like Diesel Chips are added and the where the EGT gets too high, doing serious engine damage without any warning to the driver. A pyrometer that displays a diesel’s EGT can warn the driver of dangerous conditions before such damage occurs.





A surprisingly honest chip supplier.

http://www.chipit.com.au/faq/why-are-egts-important-1

 

[umblecumbuz]

It seems that both blue and red corners are out on this one - as many times before!

I think Oigle has hit about the right note. Remapping/chipping may have a downside, but the improved driveability is worth it. My JapJeep was chipped years ago. It has covered over 100k miles, but they have been workhorse miles. The quicker response and better towability have proved their worth. So far, nothing has seriously gone wrong and it does not seem to be showing any signs of needing botox (wrinkles - premature aging).

Several local farmers have chipped their tractors for the same reasons. Their money is glued to their pockets, which are then sown shut - so they wouldn't chip unless they were getting a good return.

Just my penn'orth.
Baz