Do Mercedes make petrol cars anymore?

hawk20

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95% of every modern Mercedes I see has a big 'CDI' badge slapped on the bootlid, and everyone one here seems to have oil burners too.

I don't see the appeal myself. Are they really fantastic engines, or are people just trying to get a Mercedes 'on the cheap'?

They are not cheap. In most makes diesel versions are a bit dearer. With MB the diesels are about the same price as the petrols.

But for those who like performance the diesels are better (the 3 litre diesel in the E class offers almost exactly the same performance as the 3.5 litre petrol). A 3 litre diesel offers as much torque as a 5 litre V8 with the fuel economy of a 1600cc petrol engine. Its a no brainer.

I've had lots of petrol engines and used to dislike diesel. But they have come on so far in recent years. Quiet, refined, and so relaxing to drive with huge torque available at low revs. This gives instant response in modern traffic where most petrol engines need high revs to give any real oomph.

Nine out of 10 E class owners choose diesel. Private owners , like me, and company ones.

Notice how often petrol engined car owners sneer at diesel; but you rarely see the reverse.
 

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They are not cheap. In most makes diesel versions are a bit dearer. With MB the diesels are about the same price as the petrols.

But for those who like performance the diesels are better (the 3 litre diesel in the E class offers almost exactly the same performance as the 3.5 litre petrol). A 3 litre diesel offers as much torque as a 5 litre V8 with the fuel economy of a 1600cc petrol engine. Its a no brainer.

I've had lots of petrol engines and used to dislike diesel. But they have come on so far in recent years. Quiet, refined, and so relaxing to drive with huge torque available at low revs. This gives instant response in modern traffic where most petrol engines need high revs to give any real oomph.

Nine out of 10 E class owners choose diesel. Private owners , like me, and company ones.

Notice how often petrol engined car owners sneer at diesel; but you rarely see the reverse.

I agree with you apart from the bit in bold. The 3 litre V6 may offer as much torque as the v litre V8 but it cannot rev as high so its power is lower. an E350 makes over 270bhp and a 320cdi about 230bhp. Thats a fair different and as the 350 makes more peak power in a full on acceleration the 350 will be faster than a 320cdi. However the fuel burnt in the process of this will be a lot more. Note that diesels have taller gearing too, so although have more torque, they need it to turn the taller gears. The torque surfiet may offset the tall gear deficit vs the equivelent petrol car, it may not

However a 320cdi is hardly a slug (but a 350 and a 500 are substancially quicker cars), and neither is the base diesel which offers ample performance for UK road car driving and I find the refinement not a major issue as I have the radio on when I drive, and getting 45mpg on the way to work rather than 25mpg which the petrol equivelent (e240 or E200k) is more than enough to offset the slightly reduced peak power which would enhance the performance and slightly louder engine idle.
 

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So, if you don't see the appeal, try one for a few days. But don't try it unless you are prepared to accept that you will never go back!
I did, and the ability to listen to Classic greats sends Diesel to the pit of Hades :) Punk Rock in the C220, Rivaldi in the ML :)
 

hawk20

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I agree with you apart from the bit in bold. The 3 litre V6 may offer as much torque as the v litre V8 but it cannot rev as high so its power is lower. an E350 makes over 270bhp and a 320cdi about 230bhp. Thats a fair different and as the 350 makes more peak power in a full on acceleration the 350 will be faster than a 320cdi. .

These figures are for the 211 saloon from the MB website today: -
The petrol E350CGI has more power at 292 versus 224 for the 3 litre diesel.
But the diesel had masses more torque at 540 versus only 365 for the petrol.

But who cares? Take performance: - they both do 0-62 in 6.8 seconds and both reach the limited topspeed of 155. Should be adequate in most countries with 70mph speed limits!
 

psmart

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Notice how often petrol engined car owners sneer at diesel; but you rarely see the reverse.
Please read this thread, and others, how do you define sneering? Quite obvious just in this thread alone there is a lot of antagonism towards petrol.
 

hawk20

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I did, and the ability to listen to Classic greats sends Diesel to the pit of Hades :) Punk Rock in the C220, Rivaldi in the ML :)

You are simply wrong on this. Go and drive the new diesels. Try the 320cdi. Try it at rest even with the bonnet open. It is amazing. Read detailed reviews and you will see the diesel is now quieter at cruising speeds than the petrol.
And the huge torque means lower revs for any given speed. And fabulous, effortless, overtaking without revving to the sky as you do with petrols. I think most open-mided people who drove, say, an S320cdi or an E 320cdi for a day, would be pleasantly surprised and might, like me and many others, not choose to go back to petrol again.
 

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You are simply wrong on this. Go and drive the new diesels. Try the 320cdi. Try it at rest even with the bonnet open. It is amazing. Read detailed reviews and you will see the diesel is now quieter at cruising speeds than the petrol.
And the huge torque means lower revs for any given speed. And fabulous, effortless, overtaking without revving to the sky as you do with petrols. I think most open-mided people who drove, say, an S320cdi or an E 320cdi for a day, would be pleasantly surprised and might, like me and many others, not choose to go back to petrol again.
We live in different worlds, crusing to me is the autobahn, ie > 100mph, or its driving round town stuck at traffic lights. I rent a lot of cars here in Germany, Im a Sixt Platinum member, so IMHO I have tried, and IMHO, diesels arent the Goddess your painting them to be!

Horses for courses, but I prefer my horse with a Muzzle :rolleyes:
 

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There are many SL and SLK owners here who cannot have a diesel, there also many who only do a small mileage a year, thus not making a diesel economic to own, we all know that huge motorway miles make more sense in a diesel, on normal roads the difference is not that great.
 

hawk20

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One thing is for sure, the next few years are going to be fascinating as more and more cars are coming with more and more efficient engines. Petrol/electric hybrids and diesel/electric hybrids will be in production MB cars in the UK pretty soon.

Environmental issues will eventally force the Germans to come in line on speed limits. Fuel will start going back up to dizzy heights as the world economy revives. Huge changes await us.

The new diesels in the E class show just how much progress is being made. From a 2.2 litre diesel they are now offering S class performance with A class emissions. Incredible really.

And the A180cdi has the same performance 0-62 and same topspeed as a 5 litre Ford Mustang had at the time when Bullitt was made. Topspeed 116 and 0-62 around 10.8 seconds IIRC. We are all pretty lucky in what we drive.
 

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What difference?

Having read the posts in this thread, and noted the passions and prejudices, I don't believe that there is a great difference from the driver's point of view, either in acceleration, cruising or noise levels.

I have an SL500 and an S 320 CDI. Performance is comparable between them - they are each as fast as you can use in the real world - I can cruise at well over the legal limit on A class roads in each, without crossing the white lie. The S Class must be among the quietest cars on the road.

The SL is great fun to drive and top down it is wonderful in most weathers - climate control to cool you when it is too hot, heating for cold bright frosty days. But it is a 2 seater (with rear bench) and it does consume much more fuel.

But I don't detect much, if any difference in acceleration, road holding or handling. Whatever the brochures may say, or prejudice may suggest, in the real world you can't separate them, except for the number of fill ups!
 

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The other big issue here is, will diesels ever meet the 2012 emission figures target set by the ECU. No one has come very close yet, it could mean the end of them if not met.
 

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The other big issue here is, will diesels ever meet the 2012 emission figures target set by the ECU. No one has come very close yet, it could mean the end of them if not met.


If manufacturers cannot meet them, the regulations will be scrapped. Too many people like diesel cars for this to happen. The Co2/climate change/conserve every last bit of oil lot would through all their toys out the pram if diesels were outlawed as they are more frugal and emit less of the red herring CO2

On my way to Ollies my diesel will come into its own. It will get thru 1.5 tanks of fuel, and the equivent petrol over 2.5 tanks. Thats quite a difference and the diesel at 70mph makes no engine noise. Nada, nothing. I'm aiming for 50mpg but may be able to go higher :D

hawk20-thanks for the performance stats. They are very suprising as I was sure a E350 would murder an E320cdi but obviosuly not. I'll have to drive the pair but I'd have had my money would on the 350 being the significantly faster car. But yes its immaterial as to use the full performance of either car on a public road would be folly and not wise. My meagre needs for speed are met with a version thats not nearly as rapid as either car.
 
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hawk20

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The other big issue here is, will diesels ever meet the 2012 emission figures target set by the ECU. No one has come very close yet, it could mean the end of them if not met.

More likely is that petrol only will disappear as unable to meet the CO2 requirements.

In fact, neither will happen. Politics is the art of the possible. The standards will adjust to what is technically feasible at the time.
 

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Environmental issues will eventally force the Germans to come in line on speed limits. Huge changes await us.
Mmm... Wonder why German cars are So Advanced... ever wonder why? If we listened to the likes of the keep it slow brigade, Trabants would be all the rage!! .... would you really be wanting to drive cars to whom the target market is for a max 80mph? Why invest time, research and money?
 

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95% Petrol over here !
Got to be happy with that ,mostly Trucks & 4x4's are diesel & a few "nutter " cars. ;)
 

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More likely is that petrol only will disappear as unable to meet the CO2 requirements.

In fact, neither will happen. Politics is the art of the possible. The standards will adjust to what is technically feasible at the time.

Clearly by that statement you know nothing about the subject.
 

hawk20

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Clearly by that statement you know nothing about the subject.

A rather pompous remark by your own standards! What are you saying? Europe won't adjust standards to what it is possible to achieve? If so, I am afraid you have not been following the history of European legislation.

Of course they are influenced by what is possible. It would be crazy if they were not.
 

hawk20

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Mmm... Wonder why German cars are So Advanced... ever wonder why? If we listened to the likes of the keep it slow brigade, Trabants would be all the rage!! .... would you really be wanting to drive cars to whom the target market is for a max 80mph?

Yes I would be more than happy to drive cars limited to 80 or 90mph. After all in nearly every country those speeds exceed the legal maximum.

What possible sense is there in making cars go faster and faster when in reality we are going slower and slower in more and more congested and more and more speed-camera limited conditions.
 

hawk20

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If manufacturers cannot meet them, the regulations will be scrapped. Too many people like diesel cars for this to happen. .

I agree. Politics is the art of the possible.
 

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