Drink driving & country pubs.

[carabind]

hi carabind, you must agree with what st4 is outlinig which is what i have been trying to get over. the fact is we are all different,

i am a responsible long term drinker if you and i set off on an obstacle cource with me post my two pints and you on none then it could well be i react better than you or the same as you.

i was a biker in a big club and involved every year with the tt races in iom you had to be really "on it" to avoid any adversity.

i also fully agree with david p's comments not about your gramatical skills which are comparable with mine, but what he says about political correctness.

finally i would argue that a non alchohol driver on his / her mobile phone or one fiddling with their sat nav would be no match for me in observing potential hazards post my two pints. best wishes. herbiemercman.

I won't bang on about the consequences of drink driving ie potential loss of life/licence/car etc if you all reckon I'm just being politically incorrect.We all know those. Anyway, you've made your point and I've made mine. That what's forums are for!

 

[C180 Chris]

finally i would argue that a non alchohol driver on his / her mobile phone or one fiddling with their sat nav would be no match for me in observing potential hazards post my two pints. best wishes. herbiemercman.

This could well be true, but that is a seperate offence which will be dealt with on its own. Drink driving is a lethal combination as well as a criminal offence and those who partake in drinking alcohol then guiding (in my case) a two ton missile down the road are guilty of it.
The reason that the "limit" is as it stands is not because that is considered a safe amount, it is because your body naturally produces alcohol and the Police need a base value that could not be made by anyones body unless they have taken a drink in order to secure a prosecution.
I should imagine that with the leaps and bounds medical/electronic technology has made recently they would be able to make the max amount allowed much lower. I for one would support that.

All the best,

 

[television]

I think that any alcohol in the blood should be a ban on driving

 

[st4]

I think that any alcohol in the blood should be a ban on driving

And then so should using a mobile phone (held in your hand), playing loud music in your car that diverts your attention, staring at the sat nav, being sufficiently unwell at the wheel etc should also result in the ban as they both provide the same inability to control a car.

 

[television]

And then so should using a mobile phone (held in your hand), playing loud music in your car that diverts your attention, staring at the sat nav, being sufficiently unwell at the wheel etc should also result in the ban as they both provide the same inability to control a car.

Not quite in the same context though as cars are adapted for handicapped people.

I know its a no answer debate, but as a non drinking man I can feel my reactions slow if I did take alcohol

 

[st4]

Not quite in the same context though as cars are adapted for handicapped people.

What about for other people that are easily distracted, yobs that play load music and can't hear emergency vehicles behind them (common up here). So many things that can deminish your ability to control a car. I suppose by taking booze out the equation you have 1 less thing to deminish that vital control, awareness and concentration that makes driving the precarious thing that it is

I know its a no answer debate, but as a non drinking man I can feel my reactions slow if I did take alcohol

Then at least you are a sensible man unlike the army of drones that pass for a population.

I don't drink and drive intentionally but the day after the night is a real issue. Maybe I should buy one of them pocket breathalisers, but if I doubt my ability to drive then I simply don't.

 

[David P]

Who would I rather have on the road? I'd rather have the curry!

D

 

[David P]

Over heard the other day was the bloke who had a bottle of water that he was drinking from and he got pulled for driving without due care and attention. I also hear that eating whilst driving is a no no. But you can still smoke whilst driving, change station on the radio, arse about with your tomtom et al.

My wife had an uncle who used to smoke whilst driving - lived near Brieve in France, up in the mountains. Manual shift and he smoked. Thing is, he only had one arm and no, I am not making this up.

Didn't do him any harm. Mind you, he's dead now...

 

[carabind]

dare we ask what he died from?

 

[C180 Chris]

And then so should using a mobile phone (held in your hand),

Too late that one is already illegal too!!!
do keep up

 

[st4]

Too late that one is already illegal too!!!
do keep up

But its only a £60 3pt punishment. Drink drive carries a much higher one and IMHO both are as bad as each other

 

[C180 Chris]

I quite agree that its not near enough to get three points and a fine for using a phone whilst driving, but that does not alter the drink drive argument.
It's like if you get stopped for speeding it's no good saying look at that guy going much faster than me, the reply from the Police will be to the effect of.. we will catch him another time but we have caught you now. Drink Driving is Wrong and that is it! no amount of arguing that other crimes don't get as bad a punishment will change it...its just wrong!
If you drive a motor vehicle when impaired by drink, drugs or the fact that you are doing something else that distracts your full attention then you deserve to lose your license.
THE ONLY SAFE AMOUNT IS ZERO
And for the "i can drive better when drunk" brigade..my answer is you might think so, but ask those who you mow down if they are lucky enough to live!!

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

hi chris i respect your view which is zero drink if driving. the law and millions of people the world over do not agree with you.

everyone has their cumfort zone it's refered to as "maslowes needs highrachy".

neolithic man used to sit in his cave and only ventured out to gather food etc.

today men will risk going to the moon or climbing everest. i am not saying driving with alchohol is brave or macho, in fact i think the opposite is true, however in "myers briggs" phsyco profiling you sound like an "ISFJ"
( an introvert ,sensing feeling and judging) you do not like shades of gray more black and white, if anyone has a drink no matter how small they are condemed by you.

you also give the examples as though drivers who have had a drink go out looking to run people down.

magistrates have a different profile as they have to mitigate all crimes and constantly have to bring the shades of grey into their profession. it would be a doddle for them if they just kept to the black and white protocol. best wishes. herbiemercman.

 

[C180 Chris]

If you drink and drive then knock someone over and kill them, then you are to blame, it is your fault, you will have your license taken away as well as your liberty and i say...YOU DESERVE EVERY BIT OF IT AND MORE!!

Have your grey areas have whatever makes you feel that it is ok, but KNOW THIS, you drink then get into a missile and drive it YOU ARE IN THE WRONG and if you can live with that then who am i to change your mind.

You have made a decision on your own that you are ok to drive, not once will you involve the person that you knock down and kill, what about that persons rights??

Those who think DRINK DRIVING is ok are WRONG and i only hope they never need to live with the knowledge that because they were too selfish to wait until they got home to open a lager or two ,another fellow human being is DEAD!!!

JUSTIFY IT ALL YOU LIKE AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU FEEL OK!!

 

[st4]

If you drink and drive then knock someone over and kill them, then you are to blame, it is your fault,

Those who think DRINK DRIVING is ok are WRONG and i only hope they never need to live with the knowledge that because they were too selfish to wait until they got home to open a lager or two ,another fellow human being is DEAD!!!

JUSTIFY IT ALL YOU LIKE AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU FEEL OK!!

Not neccisary. Just because you have alcohol in your system doesn't mean the collision is not going to happen.

If a padestrain steps out in front of you and the distance to stop (or slow to a speed where death won't happen for the padestrian) for a sobre person is longer than the distance between you and the padestrain then the amount of alcohol in your system is immaterial, the collision would have happened regardless of blood alochol content.

Drink driving increases the liklihood of an collision, and as such as a drink driver you are more likely to be in the positon where your driving may result in the death of another person. But some collisions are not someones fault, they can be solely the fault of someone else. I could get hammered and drive home, and a lorry could smash into the back of my car and I be killed. How does my being drunk behind the wheel contribute to that? I could be drunk and a car be overtaking on a blind corner and drive into me and they die, how is me being drunk put me at fault...both scenarios are unavoidable.

 

[C180 Chris]

Drink driving increases the liklihood of an collision, and as such as a drink driver you are more likely to be in the positon where your driving may result in the death of another person.

And in your own words too!!

Of course the accident could still happen if you were sober, my argument is that if you have taken alcohol you would spend the rest of your life wondering if you could have reacted faster and prevented the accident altogether.
In your own words you admit that as a drunk driver you are more likely to be involved in a collision, i am amazed that anyone can try to defend getting into a car drunk and driving it.

The personal choice of the drunk driver will mean little to the poor person who is knocked over and killed!!

 

[st4]

And in your own words too!!

Of course the accident could still happen if you were sober, my argument is that if you have taken alcohol you would spend the rest of your life wondering if you could have reacted faster and prevented the accident altogether.
In your own words you admit that as a drunk driver you are more likely to be involved in a collision, i am amazed that anyone can try to defend getting into a car drunk and driving it.

The personal choice of the drunk driver will mean little to the poor person who is knocked over and killed!!

What we are talking about is getting into the car after a half pint/bottle of beer type thing, I doubt this would adversely hinder your ability to perform and I'd have full confidence that I would be able to travel safely after having a bottle of beer to drink. If I were breathalised I'd be under the limit and as such the law must have confidence in the ability for people to drive with that amount of alcholol inside them as the abilities aren't adversely effected enough for the driver to pose a significant risk to the public.

I respect what you, and others are saying and ultimately its correct but its not black and white and the original scenario posted by herbie I think doesn't pose a significant risk to the driver or those around them.

 

[C180 Chris]

i have always had a two pint very strict limit

Are we talking about half a pint or two pints ??????

Any Police officer will tell you that you are NOT ALLOWED TO DRINK AND DRIVE the reason that the law allows alcohol in the system is that the human body naturally produces it, they therefore need a base amount at which no human could naturally produce in order to secure a prosecution.
It is NOT that the law accepts that you will be ok with a couple of pints in you!
My point is that ANY person found to be drinking and driving should have the right to drive a car taken away from them!
DRINK OR DRIVE
How desperate are people if they can not just enjoy a night without alcohol??
The choices are very clear...
1, go out and enjoy as many drinks as you like then get your wife,friend,taxi driver whatever to drive you home
2, go out and drink coke,orange or other soft drinks and drive yourself home.
3,don't go out at all.
This is not rocket science, it is a simple basic rule and if someone can not manage that without needing a half pint or two pints then i pity them.
I really can not comprehend why ANYONE wants to argue this point at all, it is a complete NO BRAINER!! IF you are saying that you are only talking about having a half or so before driving then are you saying that to not have that half would adversley affect your night ...it all hangs on this half pint??????
If that were me i would worry!!
I think that the legal limit should be lowered now that we have better technology and that any person found to have more than this new limit should lose the right to drive any vehicle for a min of 5 years as a start!!
The word would soon get around and our roads would be a safer place.
Also i would like to see a re test every ten years to keep standards high for everyone.

 

[keith100]

"1, go out and enjoy as many drinks as you like then get your wife,friend,taxi driver whatever to drive you home"

My Grandfather was miserable old bastard, but he gave me one bit of useful advice "Never live more than an affordable cab ride from the city centre" And I never have.

I learnt a long time ago that the problem with drinking and driving wasn't so much the reduced reaction time (though it probably was) but that I drove faster and more recklessly. Now I have an account with a cab co.

Canadian drink/drive laws are getting quite tough. We now often send dinner party guests home in cabs, on our ticket, because hosts have been charged for letting guests get into a car when they are over the limit.

 

[HERBIEMERCMAN]

my original post was about responsible drivers who are allowed one or two drinks at a country pup. most of the time with a meal. fully legal, a sensible law for the great majority of motorists who respect freedom and know life operates on shades of gray.

c180chris is on a different subject which st4 and i have tried to explain. i repeat for the third time i hate drink drivers, or as c180chris keeps putting it drunk drivers.

you have every right to give the opinion that the drink drive limit should be zero like mary whitehouse did with sex eploitation, but you are in an absolute minority, extremes in anything never seem to be a good thing. herbiemercman.