E211 220CDi - later cars more reliable?

[the zacster]

With a baby in tow and another on the way , its finally time for the wife and I to ditch the coupe (BMW330Ci) and join the ranks of estate owners. We plan to buy used-approved (preferably a W211), we're very keen on Mercs (and the Saab 9-5), and ordinarily wouldn't hesitate rushing out to get an E220CDi (or E270CDi) estate... were it not for the fact that reliability seems to be an increasing issue for the marque. We'd therefore appreciate any views on...
1) whether reliability really is a genuine issue with Mercs?
2) whether reliability is worse with earlier/later 211s (i.e. have some of the problems with earlier 211s been fixed on later/05 cars)?
3) Is reliability better on the E220CDi than on the E270CDi?

Any views/comments would be very much appreciated. Its a pity that I have to even ask these questions - I'd always imagined that Mercs were bullet-proof and guaranteed 100% reliable

Thanks!

 

[jberks]

Its a very reasonable question given recent history. I was a little concerned myself when I bought one last month. Here's my view.
Very early 02 cars were quite troublesome and problems persisted well into late 03. However, the majority of issues were software related and fixes were applied to all cars affected when the owners complained of a problem.
So, theoretically, even an 02 car, provided it has had the software updates applied, should be pretty reliable by now.
In any case, I perhaps haven't had one long enough to take a complete view, but, so far anyway, my E270 hasn't missed a beat. There are a couple of very minor niggles e.g. the horn buzzes slightly when I shut the door (I did say minor but if I found this, I shouldn't have missed anything more serious) which will be attended to on Tuesday but nothing that has spoiled my enjoyment over the 2000 miles / 4 weeks I've had the car - it still puts a smile on my face and this is my 3rd merc so the novelty has already waned. Everything works when I press the button, she starts when I flick the key and picks up and tears off into the sunset without hesitation when asked and returns 37-41 on my 40 mile rush hour stop-start motorway commute.
The only reliability issue on the 270 was the turbo and I haven't heard any reports in the last couple of years so I suspect that was ironed out long ago.
Some early EU4 220CDIs had economy problems due to the ECU tweaks they had put in to get around the drag of the particle filter (270s are EU3 only) but again, allegedly thats been resolved on later cars.

In summary, the W211 is great, the dealers unfortunately aren't. But that's another story.

 

[Jensen]

JBerks
What about build quality bodywork, paintwork etc how does this compare?
Quality of interior/level of plastic?

 

[jberks]

After 70 odd hours of sitting in it, I think the interior of my w211 compares well with both my old W202 (1995 C class) and my W210 (2000 E class) . Its less 'old fashioned' that they were so everything feels more modern but the quality of the switch gear, wood, plastic etc is just as good, if not possibly better in some cases. It is the first Merc I've had that has a switch blank (only the one mind) where previous ones felt almost made to order, but that's just progress. There are no squeaks or rattles, despite having sports suspension, and everything certainly 'feels' like it will still be working perfectly after another 100,000 miles or so. Everything is damped, clicks as it should and feels well screwed together.

Paintwork wise, again I would say the quality appears just as good as the C (which is still excellent after 10 years) and is certainly substantially better than the last E (following the corrosion nightmare no doubt), plus the 211 has an aluminium boot and bonnet so stone chips are less of a worry than they used to be.

So far anyway, I've found my initial concerns unfounded and I'd say that it compares well to similar level motors, if a tad pricey.
Most owners on here seem quite happy with them so I can see no reason to warn you off.

 

[maldon]

Having been through two Saabs, am now on fifth Mercedes.

From a purely residual point of view, I reckon you would be streets ahead with an E class.

 

[maddog]

Having been through two Saabs, am now on fifth Mercedes.

From a purely residual point of view, I reckon you would be streets ahead with an E class.

I wouldnt, i've lost £31k on my E class in just over 4 years and 40,000 miles.

The extra you need to pay to get a decent level of trim is dead money, whilst the residual values are good the cars cost too much in the first place and you will be locked in to sky high service costs and poor service from dealers

Having had a MB I have recently been looking at the Saab Aero and Vectra VXR to replace it i wont even consider a MB new again.

However used models are not quite so bad i think the £12k that my car is worth is a lot of car for the money

As far as reliabilty goes my car has been pretty good, a fair few niggling faults and massive service bills but its only been off the road 4 days in 4 years for repairs, some other owners have had a nightmare with their cars identical models, seems the w211 is the same , some good some bad, at least with a used car you would hope most of the faults would have been ironed out

 

[the zacster]

Thanks to you all - your views/advice are much appreciated. I'm still inclined towards getting the Merc, despite the reliability issues, but reckon if I go down that route I'll go for a later (04/05) car just to be on the safe side. Still undecided about the 220CDi vs 270CDi; is there much difference in fuel economy?

Now that I've noted some seriously negative comments about the high service costs and lousy dealers, I'm having to think twice and will have to start searching the forum on feedback about stealers. (That said, having had to put up with BMW dealers for the last 3 years, I should be used to poor service by now).

 

[chhabra]

e220 cdi 44 mpg very fast 2003 modle very pleased change new car every year first time not considering will wait for new modle 18 months top car few problems with electric mirrors thats it

 

[jberks]

Now that I've noted some seriously negative comments about the high service costs and lousy dealers, I'm having to think twice and will have to start searching the forum on feedback about stealers. (That said, having had to put up with BMW dealers for the last 3 years, I should be used to poor service by now).

Coming from BMW, I don't think you'll see much difference. Just bear in mind that you ARE an inconvenience, the service receptionist IS more important than you and your credit card IS endless. That said, I started to use a specialist for the 240. Same quality of work, better service and half the price. Still considering what I will do in 6,000 miles time, but I'm erring towards the specialist at the moment.

As far as depreciation goes, I only buy used around 12 months old (as you are considering). I don't save much on the car itself but you get loaded ones for around the same price as a basic one. As Maddog's found, extras depreciate almost entirely the moment you sign the cheque so their pain is our gain. I have never changed a Merc because I had to, only because I'd had it long enough and I was bored. True, I never got close to what I thought they were worth, but then I didn't want to sell privately so I have to accept what a garage, looking for a prfit, is willing to offer. There are people advertising 240's like my last one for 2.5k more than I got, but whether they ever get the asking price, how long it will take them and how much hassle is involved is another matter.

Sorry, but I test drove some top of the range Saab's as many of my family swear by them. They are unquestionably, excellent cars, but after a Merc, they felt like the best Vauxhall money can buy. The Merc is more of a downmarket Bentley IMHO.

 

[maddog]

That said, I started to use a specialist for the 240. Same quality of work, better service and half the price. Still considering what I will do in 6,000 miles time, but I'm erring towards the specialist at the moment.

The Merc is more of a downmarket Bentley IMHO.

I would use a specialist but for the rust problem , i just dont want the hassle when the time comes and i'm sure it will come

Downmarket Bentley is a bit far

 

[Jensen]

Well mine is in for body repair next week even though the last service was done by an independent. Merc paying Reg 1998

 

[jberks]

Downmarket Bentley is a bit far

I didn't say how far downmarket!

off subject but ..
That said, I view the car industry as 4 levels
Borderline nasty (Kia etc)
average stuff (Ford, Vauhall, toyota etc)
Cut above (MB, BM, Jag etc)
Cost no object (Bentley/RR/Aston etc)
with each emulating the level above.
Clearly there's a lot of cross over but if I had to pick what an E was emulating, then with the gadgetry, leather, wood, refinement and performance, I'd say Bentley is about right.

 

[jberks]

Well mine is in for body repair next week even though the last service was done by an independent. Merc paying Reg 1998

They seem quite flexible these days. In any case, corrosion is not really an issue for the W211 so the gun isn't at your head like it is with the 210.

 

[Jensen]

JBerks

I'm impressed with your knowledge.

Mine is a C class 250 TD Sport I thought this was a W202 model, but you may have thought I was referring to E class.

Please confirm model for my c250 td

Thanks

 

[ddentrec]

After 70 odd hours of sitting in it, I think the interior of my w211 compares well with both my old W202 (1995 C class) and my W210 (2000 E class) . .

..then why does the new W211 have bare screw heads holding the sun visors in place? Or what about the naff sticky-label for the gear selection setting? Why do the rear door ashtrays wobble when you press them to open them? The seat rails are bare black-painted metal: even the humble VW Golf covers them with a neat colour-coded-match-carpet shroud.

And the doors shut with a 'twang' rather than a 'thunk'.

They do rattle: the front seat belt anchors are notorious for it and there is a service bulletin to correct it (does not always help though).

Overall, the W211 E-Class is only average when compared to similar vehicles. It is only the M-B brand that makes you think you are driving something special.

 

[jberks]

sticky-label for the gear selection setting - can't say I'd noticed, I'll have a look tonight.
The shut sound is different, true, but still nice and solid.
The seat belt anchors are quiet on mine (unlike my W210 which drove me nuts)
and I can't say I've noticed the other bits but some would say that changing a crude clunky ash tray for a damped one is an improvement.
You can pick fault with pretty much anything. I remember being rather disappointed with some aspects of the trim on a Rolls too.
Yes there are things that I think are a retrograde step. I liked the qwirky old gear gate, I liked the foam pad down the side of the seat to catch your change as it fell out of your pocket and I preferred the old steering wheel buttons (though I imagine you can now replace the cover if it gets worn).
However, the trailing edge of the centre console doesn't ride up until its above the rest of the panel, there's no cheap plastic surround around the gear shift anymore. The bonnet is now held with 2 catches rather than one, they've added an extra sun visor, the glove box has a nicer damped feel and the lock is now illiminated, there's a nice dimmable ambient light cluster in the centre of the roof, the front ash tray cover has a better feel, the tray above is now opened electrically, the door pocket is now trimmed on the inside too etc etc. Pros and cons certainly, but on average, no worse than the W210.
Oh - and it doesn't rust!

 

[maddog]

Oh - and it doesn't rust!

..........yet

 

[jberks]

got me wondering.
No its not a sticker, its moulded embossed plastic, unlike the printed plastic of the older model (difference?) and the seat runners are covered in a carpet coloured trim just like every other merc I've had.
Are you sure your's isn't Hong Kong copy?

 

[fuzzer]

220 is so lethargic , totally spoils what is a good car.

270 is absolute minimum in W211

 

[jberks]

odd.
I took out a 220 expecting exactly that, no grunt and massey ferguson refinement. Coming from a sweet 240 v6 the bar was quite high. In fact I was very impressed. Very smooth, and plenty of go - felt quicker than the 240. I almost bought one. Sure, the extra go of the 270/320 (let alone the new 280/320) gives the car a far more sporty feel with kick in the back grunt, but its precisely that, 'extra'. I'd class the 220cdi performance as perfectly acceptable.