E220 Estate SLS THE DROP

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atlantimd

atlantimd

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This morning the car is 1" lower both left and right sides. The 2 electric L&R rear (Y53/1, Y54/1) valves must be opening to let pressures out. My understanding was they would be closed only being operated when level adjustment is required. After I jacked the near side up yesterday to fit brake pads on lowering the car sat slightly higher until 10 seconds (Approx) after locking the car Airbag valve click and air released then another click and air stopped. The car was then at the correct height until this morning.
Are the valves open with pressure in the lines all times And I have a Leak
 

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Are the valves open with pressure in the lines all times
To the best of my knowledge, the valves are only open if the ride height is too high. Certainly, the removed airbags I have sitting on the bench retain all of their pressure - 5v has to be deliberately applied to the electrical connector to release air.

Martin.
 
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To the best of my knowledge, the valves are only open if the ride height is too high. Certainly, the removed airbags I have sitting on the bench retain all of their pressure - 5v has to be deliberately applied to the electrical connector to release air.

Martin.
Yes I had to apply voltage to the pins on the old airbags to deflate so I don't understand why its dropping ( Both new airbags Failing?). I have checked Under the car on ramps and sensor is fine no damage. gas leak detector on all underside lines show no leak. I removed the floor inside the car nothing there. There is a small bit of chaffing of the pressure pipe at the compressor where it was rubbing the pump wires although it shows no leak I am going to order some pipe and fitting to splice it in. I am still not 100% sure that the airbag pressure lines should be moving when pulled once tightened I am getting about 1mm play pull and push (But No Leaks). I will be fitting new line and doing the compressor kit when it arrived and I will Update.
 

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I suspect my bags have completely gone after they've been fully compressed for so long now.

I think this is the compressor kicking in and not filling anything.

YouTube vid
 
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atlantimd

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There is a compressor Kit to replace piston ring (Ebay) and you can dry out the desiccant. I will be doing that next, But first I have to repair corroded metal brake line burst under passenger sider rear door. Pipe was rotten with corrosion. Jobs starting to Build but I will get there. The suspension is a Head wrecker on these
 

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There is a compressor Kit to replace piston ring (Ebay) and you can dry out the desiccant. I will be doing that next, But first I have to repair corroded metal brake line burst under passenger sider rear door. Pipe was rotten with corrosion. Jobs starting to Build but I will get there. The suspension is a Head wrecker on these
I can understand how infuriating this suspension issue must be. I am still of the opinion that each airbag is fundamentally a sealed system, and will not deflate unless commanded to by the car, or has a leak.

I think if I were in your position, I would do the following. As you are off the road for a bit fixing brake pipes, this is a convenient time.

I would:
- With the car on its wheels, run the engine and compressor until the airbags are filled, and suspension is at the correct level.
- Stop engine, and disconnect 12v battery so that the car cannot try and deflate the airbags when you jack the car up.
- Now, completely unscrew and remove the air line inputs into the airbags.

I believe the bags should now stay fully pressurised indefinitely, and so make sure the car is on its wheels and taking its own weight.

If the car still drops the usual 1" overnight, then the bags are leaking. I would then suggest going back to the supplier for a warranty claim.

If the car does not drop, then the issue is likely to be the airline input fitting, either not completely airtight when fitted or opening the one way valve inside the bag incorrectly.

Martin.
 

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There is a compressor Kit to replace piston ring (Ebay) and you can dry out the desiccant. I will be doing that next, But first I have to repair corroded metal brake line burst under passenger sider rear door. Pipe was rotten with corrosion. Jobs starting to Build but I will get there. The suspension is a Head wrecker on these
I saw the kit while I was mooching around the net, I also found spring conversion kits. Not something I wanted to do but with all the hassle you've had and limited life expectancy of the car I think that could be the best way to go.

I had some corroded brake lines replaced a while back, with SBC it wasn't something I wanted to do myself. I didn't think ICarsoft has the capability needed to bleed, so apart from pads and discs I steered clear of the brakes.
 

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It occurred to me this morning that I should have a look at WIS, and see what that says about leak detection on our non AIRMATIC cars. I was trying to find a document that describes how the system is designed to work, which parts are expected to be under pressure etc.

I cannot find such a design overview type document, but perhaps the below helps in the diagnosis to anyone in future.

After reading all of this, I am confused. It makes no sense to me that the airbags be designed with a one way valve on entry unless they are meant to be sealed completely - i.e. will retain pressure unless electrically commanded to deflate.

However, the leak detection document below talks about checking for leaks without needing to have the engine/compressor running. That suggests to me that the entire system, including compressor and distribution valves, is open to airbag pressure, and potentially a leak elsewhere in the system will allow the airbags to deflate.

None of this helps me understand atlantimd's problem, but perhaps it helps someone else understand.

Martin.


First of all, this is as close to a system overview document as I can find.

WIS screenshot 1.jpg WIS screenshot 2.jpg




The following is the leak detection document from WIS

WIS Leak testing 1.jpg WIS Leak testing 2.jpg WIS Leak testing 3.jpg WIS Leak testing 4.jpg
 
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Thanks for the document. Second set of diagrams relate to my car. Single white pressure line from compressor into the car under the rear seat brass fitting.Maybe the valve on the top of the Airbag is electrically operated to let air in and release air out to correct ride height. The pressure line has always got some pressure in it. I previously released the compressor line a few turns and it released air.
I have taken your advice and ran the Engine and compressor car is now up. Battery disconnected and pressure lines disconnected wheels back on. There was pressure in the line when disconnecting near side rear and I presume that released the entire system to the compressor. Offside there was no pressure on release. I attached pictures of the pressure lines Offside rear does not fully clear the sealing ring and could be a an issue. I do remember that I replaced the near side airbag first and following day right hand, I remember the car did drop on the new nearside airbag so there is another issue. Car is sitting 3.5 cm above wheel.
 

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atlantimd

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I saw the kit while I was mooching around the net, I also found spring conversion kits. Not something I wanted to do but with all the hassle you've had and limited life expectancy of the car I think that could be the best way to go.

I had some corroded brake lines replaced a while back, with SBC it wasn't something I wanted to do myself. I didn't think ICarsoft has the capability needed to bleed, so apart from pads and discs I steered clear of the brakes.
I am going to do the lines myself. The car is facelift 2008 with no SBC so I think its easier to do. I prefer the air suspension, but yes I understand converting to springs I am not sure how it would ride with a heavy load.
 
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This Morning the car has dropped about 2.5cm. After I lowered the car off jacks it was sitting Higher then normal as can be seen in yesterday's pictures 3.5cm. It has not dropped as much as it did on previous occasions with pressure lines and battery connected. This is not what I wanted to see as it is still not clear indication as to Airbag leak or pipe leak.
 

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MJJ

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This Morning the car has dropped about 2.5cm. After I lowered the car off jacks it was sitting Higher then normal as can be seen in yesterday's pictures 3.5cm. It has not dropped as much as it did on previous occasions with pressure lines and battery connected. This is not what I wanted to see as it is still not clear indication as to Airbag leak or pipe leak.
Are you able to leave the car undisturbed for another 24 hours, and see if that drop is repeated or not? Wondering if there is a settling going on after having the car raised.

Martin.
 
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Thanks for replay Martin
Yes I will leave it for another 24 hours I was wondering about settling. I presume also Temperature changes can cause a bit of contraction of air 10 deg C yesterday 6 deg C overnight.

Martin
 
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Checked car this morning and it has settled a bit more on the near side (top of the wheel not visible). the off side is down but not as much as the N/S (top of the wheel just visible). The old airbags would completely collapse to the stops so this is different. I am wondering are they poor quality units and I am starting to doubt them. I have read some horror stories online about warranty and customer service.
 

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MJJ

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Checked car this morning and it has settled a bit more on the near side (top of the wheel not visible). the off side is down but not as much as the N/S (top of the wheel just visible). The old airbags would completely collapse to the stops so this is different. I am wondering are they poor quality units and I am starting to doubt them. I have read some horror stories online about warranty and customer service.

Sorry to hear that, though I think you have to conclude that at least one bag (N/S) is leaking. Are they are an established brand, with perhaps an aftersales service that may help rectify? I do wonder if dropping the car onto that newly fitted bag has killed it.

If you reach the unfortunate point of having to buy again, I can wholeheartedly recommend these Bilstein options. I fitted these to my S211 about a month ago, and the car has sat completely unused for the last three weeks - suspension has not dropped in the slightest.

Martin.
 
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Sorry to hear that, though I think you have to conclude that at least one bag (N/S) is leaking. Are they are an established brand, with perhaps an aftersales service that may help rectify? I do wonder if dropping the car onto that newly fitted bag has killed it.

If you reach the unfortunate point of having to buy again, I can wholeheartedly recommend these Bilstein options. I fitted these to my S211 about a month ago, and the car has sat completely unused for the last three weeks - suspension has not dropped in the slightest.

Martin.
If I was aware I could get the Bilstein at that price I would have choose them. My local motor factors said that the Arnotts were out of stock here in Ireland and that they were having a lot of issues getting other car parts. So it was bit of a panic buy to get the Aerosus Units.
Whe I was inflating I left bottom nut loose on the bolt. Started the car while jacked and very slowly lowered the car stopping for about 10 seconds at each drop. The bags inflated once the wheel arch was just level at the top of the tyre. The car lifted off the jack I then tightened the bottom bolt.
I will get in contact with Aerosus about a warranty. I will say that the Boxed airbags when arrived had different part numbers for left and right but the 2 were identical.

Update: 30 day money back period expired, I have contacted them.
 
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I replaced the rear air suspension units on my S212 over 4 years ago.
I bought Aerosus units -- good price, fast delivery and appeared to be good quality.

That was Jan 2017 and the rear air suspension has been faultless since then.

The units in the S212 are different to the S211 -- fittings are different and there is no electrical connection on the S212.

Your fitting procedure described above sounds fine. The units shouldn't have been excessively compressed or extended.

I do sympathise with you -- it is frustrating.
You might have been unlucky and got faulty bags - surprising that both are faulty.
Interesting to hear how you get on.
 
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atlantimd

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I have to remove the airbag to send back for warranty purposes. But There Aerosus bags don't vent on 5- 9v applied to solenoid valve unlike the originals. I had No issue removing the original 9v battery on them and they vented the bag. I have no access to star or other diagnostic reader only my icarsoft mb which will not activate anything. Car jacked on 1 side with axel stands, battery disconnected, driver side rear airline disconnected, passenger side Rear airbag to be removed. Any Ideas
 
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MJJ

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Given the car supplies 5v to those pins when it needs to deflate, it seems most likely (sorry to say) that you are not managing to successfully apply the voltage to the pins. Perhaps with a helper, try to manually compress the bag whilst applying voltage - though in my experience, the bags will happy deflate on a bench just by applying voltage. I do recall that the pins were tiny, and buried, and my electronics obsessed teenager came to the rescue with a variable voltage power supply and micro female sockets.

Slightly more destructive option: cut the loom to that airbag, feed 5v to the now cut wires, and then ultimately re-solder and heat shrink.

Longer wind solution that might work: make sure both sides are off the ground to protect the other airbag. Reconnect the air input lines (to protect the compressor), the venting electrical connectors and the 12v battery. Then, as the car is in the air and the height sensor will be saying it is too high, the car might vent itself. Given the engineers will have planned for a car to be jacked, it may only vent slightly when it sees no ride height change. You may need to undo the two bolts that hold the rear axle height sensor on (easy job), and whilst looking at iCarsoft live data of ride height, manually fool the car into thinking it is riding too high, yet reducing in height slowly. On my car, the ignition needed to be in position 2 for the compressor to work, but not sure if the ignition is needed for venting the bags.

Martin.
 
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atlantimd

atlantimd

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Given the car supplies 5v to those pins when it needs to deflate, it seems most likely (sorry to say) that you are not managing to successfully apply the voltage to the pins. Perhaps with a helper, try to manually compress the bag whilst applying voltage - though in my experience, the bags will happy deflate on a bench just by applying voltage. I do recall that the pins were tiny, and buried, and my electronics obsessed teenager came to the rescue with a variable voltage power supply and micro female sockets.

Slightly more destructive option: cut the loom to that airbag, feed 5v to the now cut wires, and then ultimately re-solder and heat shrink.

Longer wind solution that might work: make sure both sides are off the ground to protect the other airbag. Reconnect the air input lines (to protect the compressor), the venting electrical connectors and the 12v battery. Then, as the car is in the air and the height sensor will be saying it is too high, the car might vent itself. Given the engineers will have planned for a car to be jacked, it may only vent slightly when it sees no ride height change. You may need to undo the two bolts that hold the rear axle height sensor on (easy job), and whilst looking at iCarsoft live data of ride height, manually fool the car into thinking it is riding too high, yet reducing in height slowly. On my car, the ignition needed to be in position 2 for the compressor to work, but not sure if the ignition is needed for venting the bags.

Martin.
Thanks Martin. Rain has put a halt to my work here as I have no garage. I did hear the solenoid in the bag click but no air release. I will retry tomorrow. Just wondering does it need to be fully deflated ? ( found it hard to get small trolly jack under the jacking point) I know it will be harder to remove but I was going to disconnect more and remove shock bolt
 

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