E240 (2.6) No gears (sometimes( - but runs lovely!

[JasonDeane]

Gentlemen,

Over three years I've been coming on this forum and I still have the same car! Three faults of varying degrees over that time solved, scarylingly quickly, by Malcolm and collegues, links here for reference:

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=86844
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=58705
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=55227

Have another fault, and, after doing the usual forum trawling, now have some ideas, but need some more specific input if possible.

It's a 2000 E240 auto tiptronic, good nick, well looked after, but getting on. Now has 123,000 on the clock, serviced at 119,000 by independant.

My missus complained a few months ago that she had been driving along and the engine started revving and redlined but there was no power, luckily it was just as she was getting home, so got there and I had a look. Car was fine and drove it hard and fast round the block to check. Told her (with a smile!!!) she was going mad!

Car was fine again for a couple of weeks, she complained again that it was like it had come out of gear, ie if you put the clutch in on a manual, engine working perfectly, buv no drive, no gears at all. Limped home (it was a couple of miles) by using what tiny drive was left at about 10 mph to get there. I came and had a look, car was aboslutely fine. Drove hard and fast around the block, all was well. Told her (again with a smile!!) she was definately losing it.

Happened again a couple of weeks later to my missus, again, I couldn't replicate it. Car was always fine for me and I used it more during this period. We did about 1500-2000 miles over this period of 'weirdness.'

Finally, last night, it happened to me. Turns out she wasn't actually going mad. Driving along the M4, suddenly the rev counter red lined and all power was lost. No gears, forward OR backward, would engage, like the gear box just wasn't there. Pulled onto hard shoulder. Powered off, powered back on, gear re-engaged, pulled away, a minute later, power lost again. Limped to Junction 11 services, about a mile, by truning on and off every couple of hundred yards (had two small kids in the car, damned if I was leaving them in the car on the hard shoulder at night, in pouring rain) and called green flag. They gave me priority as I had two small kids which meant I only had to wait 2.5 hours for a truck. That's sarcasm by the way, I pay top whack for highest and fastest level repsonse. It wasn't very good. But that's another story.

Car taken back to mate's garage. When we got there, car started, went into gear and moved just fine. As if nothing had happened. It's still there though.

I want to give my mate some clues to have a look at it. Various theories put forward by tow truck driver - be interested in your views. Here's the details:

Engine starts and runs completely normally and ticks over perfectly. 99% of the time, the car runs and engages/changes gear perfectly. When it fails, it fails completely. When it has done so, the engine has been hot and/or the car has been running for some while, so it could be heat related. This would also explain why, in the past, when the missus complained of failure, it's been at least an hour or so since I looked at it and worked perfectly. But it doesn't explain why it doesn't always fail on long journeys, since you'd expect this.

My missus has just reminded me that we've been hearing a high pitched whine on and off for the last month, completely mimicking the pitch of the engine, couldn't locate nor did it affect performance. We now think, after discussion and looking back, the failure ONLY occurs when the whine is present. If it starts and there's no whine, there's no failure. Gotta be a clue there somewhere!

Intruiging one this - what's YOUR theory?!

Respect, thanks and regards,
Jason

 

[television]

It is just very low on gearbox fluid,,, you have a leak somewhere

 

[star]

If the oil level is ok I would think your gearbox filter is blocking, this causes the whine. Remove it and cut it open, it might be full of black particles from a clutch pack or torque convertor. Changing the filter will work for a while but it will block again. There is a thread recently about this fault.

 

[JasonDeane]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies - prompt as ever!!! Malcolm - as you have a three out of three hit rate for anything I've thrown at you before, so I'm inclined to agree! My tow truck driver was also convinced it was an oil problem, but didn't want to post his theory in case it swayed your view. Spot on I'd say!

The other Green Flag man also thought it could be a Torque Convertor (whatever that is), or a pressure switch in the gear selector, although he favoured also the low gear oil scenario.

Star - thanks for the extra tip, will pass this on also. What was the thread you were referring to - haven't been able to find it? Do you have the link - like to learn as much as I can. I see you're based in my neck of the woods, very handy to know. Assuming the problem IS what we suspect it is, what sort of price woudl I expect to pay if I came to you? Sounds like you may have done it before!

Thanks guys.

As usual, I will follow up later on when the solution is found so that this thread completes and others can benefit from it.

 

[JasonDeane]

Update time: the word from the garage is that the oil is, in fact, at the correct level, but it is a very nasty, dirty, gloopy, syrupy affair and isn't doing its job. They are going to drain, clean and refill and replace one of the gaskets. There has been no mention of filter at this stage - should there be? I have until tomorrow to raise this if we think it's necessary, is there anything else we should look for/raise?

Thanks guys!

Jason

 

[television]

There will not be a drain plug on the converter but new fluid can be put in to push the old out, there will be a filter

 

[JasonDeane]

OK gents, as promised I am posting back with the (hopefully) final update.

As discussed, the garage replaced the oil 'best they could' (not sure what that means) changed the filter and replaced the gearbox sump gasket, less than £100 with the VAT.

Car runs well and gear change seems solid. No whine audible on teh couple of short journeys I've done. However, the garage couldn't really indicate why it happened and whether it would happen again. It's an unkown.

In the spirit of providing information for other users, I will keep this thread open and report back in the future and let you know if we have the same problem again or it's all been fine!

Thanks all!

 

[WG M-B]

Strange eh? But hopefully that's the end of your troubles

 

[star]

I do hope so for you but from past experience it might block up after a couple of weeks or was the oil just so old. Did you get the filter cut open?

 

[Pathfinder]

The oil and filter was overdue a change, as STAR suggested above.

Last time I done mine at 110K (second change since new) I cut the filter open and it was solidified on the inside of the mesh and the oil smelled burnt.

 

[jberks]

I did mine for the second time at 110k. Probably do it a 3rd time at 150k which isn't too far off now. I guess this one fell foul of the 'sealed for life' line and so wasn't done at 48k.

 

[JasonDeane]

Thanks gents. I can report that after 25 miles of perfect operation, the exact same problem returned as suddenly as it did before. Car is currently abandoned locally, will go and fetch it in a minute and bring it home. Usually, if we leave it for a bit of time, it'll simply start and run as normal, but if not I'll tow it, it's only a couple of miles. Obviously changing the oil and filter has not solved the problem. Does anyone have any other ideas of what it could be? Is there anything else that fits the symptoms?

This has probably made the decision that it is time to replace the car, but at the same time, I've just got to know what it is! I'm intrigued!

Jason

 

[luders79]

have you had the fault codes checked?

I've had similar probelms when the speed sensors start to fail on the electronic plate in the gearbox, sits on top of valve body.

You could be on a long drive gearbox working fine then it will suddenly go, revs will go up and it will either not move or move very slowly.

just a thought.

 

[star]

Thanks gents. I can report that after 25 miles of perfect operation, the exact same problem returned as suddenly as it did before. Car is currently abandoned locally, will go and fetch it in a minute and bring it home. Usually, if we leave it for a bit of time, it'll simply start and run as normal, but if not I'll tow it, it's only a couple of miles. Obviously changing the oil and filter has not solved the problem. Does anyone have any other ideas of what it could be? Is there anything else that fits the symptoms?

This has probably made the decision that it is time to replace the car, but at the same time, I've just got to know what it is! I'm intrigued!

Jason

Sorry to hear this but I feared so as I posted earlier. Seen it several times before. It's either the torque convertor clutch or a gearbox clutch pack. Either get the adaptations read to check for plate wear or examine the filter.

 

[television]

I had a Saab that would just stop with no drive, after much work it was discovered that the ally casing was crumbling and tiny fragments were blocking the valve block, all of these cases are painted inside to stop this from happening, and just one corner had no paint. Could it be that the old fluid was so bad it is blocking the valve block, its not speed plate problems and I am sure of that, if a valve blocks then the converter gets no fluid, where as with the speed plate you will have drive

 

[JasonDeane]

Just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for their help on this one. In the end it was a simple decision to sell it as it was due for replacement in a few months anyway. Put on ebay with one of my usual very wordy and detailed descriptions so the buyer knew what they were getting and it sold straight away for £900! Quite chuffed about that, would probably only have been worth £1500-£1800 anyway by now in full working order. The buyer swears it's a sensor, so he's happy.
In the meantime I bought an S320, only a little newer that the one just gone so still quite old, but very good history, one owner from new, low mileage and fully loaded. No doubt will be back on the forums in the future when the next little niggle appears!
Thanks and thanks again, your input is really appreciated.