E280 (W124) Buying advice

[Merclad]

Hi everyone,

I've shortlisted a few E280's to look at over the weekend. Found one which certainly sounds great according to the owner.

From what I've read, this is the best engine to go for in terms of smooth power and reasonable economy. Can anyone give me a rough mpg (long run and city driving?). They are saloons.

Apart from the usual checks (gasket etc), does anyone have any tips before I look these motors over? Does the 280 have the same idling and startup traits as the 300?

Thanks in advance

 

[stargazerplus]

20 round town, 28 - 32 on motorway. 280 is a 24v engine with variable air inlet tracts, just like the 320. It is a different animal from a 300. Some say smoother but more valvetrain noise at high rpm. Similar economy to 320... I got 17 around town and max 32 on long runs.

 

[3146bj]

Currently getting around 12litres/100km around the city, dropping to 8litre/100km on country trips, cruising at our 100km/hr limit. These are on Australia's standard 91-93 octane RON unleaded. Using Shell Optimax (98 octane RON and 0.79 specific gravity) drops them to about 10 & 6.5 respectively. Don't have a conversion to mpg as its so long since we went metric.

 

[Merclad]

Thanks to Star and 3146. 8 litres per 100km is impressive. My commute to work is a 12 mile cruise each way on national speed limit roads, thus economy isn't a major concern.

Apart from the usual checks, is there anything else in particular to look out for on this engine as I'm not familiar with it.

Thanks in advance

 

[stargazerplus]

Nope... the head gasket is the main issue oh and of course the infamous biodegradable wiring loom atop the engine... check that the insulation on the engine harness is not turning to dust. It IS a DIY job to replace if you take your time but costs a lot.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M104WireHarness

 

[big x]

Pop off the rear plastic cover of the jacking point and check for rust in the sill.As a water trap they can rust badly there.

adam

 

[Merclad]

Cheers for the info guys. Well I looked at a couple of 280s today. One had more froth in the coolant than a cappucino. The other had 3 rotten wheelarches. The search continues...............

I've seen a quite a few rusty 124s now. Is the paint as good on these as the 190? Before I switched my search to a 124 model, I looked at a few 190Es and most of them had very little or no rust at all.

Was impressed with the smooth power of the 280 though.

 

[hawk20]

Cheers for the info guys. Well I looked at a couple of 280s today. One had more froth in the coolant than a cappucino. The other had 3 rotten wheelarches. The search continues...............

I've seen a quite a few rusty 124s now. Is the paint as good on these as the 190? Before I switched my search to a 124 model, I looked at a few 190Es and most of them had very little or no rust at all.

Was impressed with the smooth power of the 280 though.

Great engine. Loved mine and was doing 30k p.a. then. At the time Autocar described it as 'the best engine, of any size, of any make, at any price anywhere in the world'. And the E280 as 'a genuine transcontinental cruiser'. I remember I couldn't wait to get one and loved it when I did.

The problem you've got to watch is the rust issue. If you search for rust on E class forums, or 'spring perches' you may need new trousers. Seems to be mainly around the late 90's. Quite a few have had the front suspension collapse as the 'spring perches' (like a parrot perch but for the suspension springs) have rusted through. Try this link:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1207786-rust-warning.html and for one where Merc replaced the rusty parts on a 97 E class well out of guarantee try: -
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1268493-wtf-my-spring-fell-off.html And here on this forum try: -
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=18495
The truth seems to be the early cars are good and more recent ones are, now that Merc have faced the problems of the cost-cutting years. I think I'm right in saying the 30 year rust guarantee came in around 1999. If you get one with that -AND A FULL MBSH- to keep the guarantee in place it's one thing. Without it is probably quite another. Be careful.

 

[3146bj]

Have had my 280 (W124) for about 2.5 years now and 53000km and had no problems other than the engine wiring loom. I looked at eight or nine 124's before buying the 280 and none had a sign of rust anywhere, but that's not a great recommendation as rust isn't a major problem here unless cars live close to the sea. After 200,000km, everything seems to still work well, the engine and auto feel better the harder you work them, tyre wear is not a problem (currently Michelin Energy's) and the suspension is tight without any clunks or knocks. From hearsay here, an MB service history is no recommendation. It only means the previous owner(s) paid top dollar for poor workmanship and a masochistic delight in being treated as an idiot. Comments on this and other forums indicate that a lousy dealer attitude is not limited to Australia.

Good luck with your search and a good 280 is worth keeping for a long time.

 

[big x]

Great engine. Loved mine and was doing 30k p.a. then. At the time Autocar described it as 'the best engine, of any size, of any make, at any price anywhere in the world'. And the E280 as 'a genuine transcontinental cruiser'. I remember I couldn't wait to get one and loved it when I did.

The problem you've got to watch is the rust issue. If you search for rust on E class forums, or 'spring perches' you may need new trousers. Seems to be mainly around the late 90's. Quite a few have had the front suspension collapse as the 'spring perches' (like a parrot perch but for the suspension springs) have rusted through. Try this link:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1207786-rust-warning.html and for one where Merc replaced the rusty parts on a 97 E class well out of guarantee try: -
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1268493-wtf-my-spring-fell-off.html And here on this forum try: -
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=18495
The truth seems to be the early cars are good and more recent ones are, now that Merc have faced the problems of the cost-cutting years. I think I'm right in saying the 30 year rust guarantee came in around 1999. If you get one with that -AND A FULL MBSH- to keep the guarantee in place it's one thing. Without it is probably quite another. Be careful.

We are talking about W124's 86-95 rather than the W210's introduced in early 96.The E280/320's M104 DOHC IL 6's engines where introduced in 94 and carried over into the W210 till 97 when replaced by the V6's.
Here's my 94 E320.With 220 bhp these are quick cars even by todays standards as the weight is less than 1500kg.
Note the bubbling on the lower front wing which is typical of later W124's.The last pic is the slightly modified version
as used in a 1996 E320 W210.

adam

 

[hawk20]

Yes. I'm not great on series numbers! One day I'll swot upo and do an idiots guide. The normal guides are so full of detail the mind fudes. Back to E's. The 210's have had plenty of rusr issues as is well known, but I was surprised to see Merclad found a few with a fair bit of rust. Normally these older ones are part of the Merc legend era. Hard to tell how owners have kept but was the rust coming from below the paint?

Bubbles on front wings as in the photo are often caused by stone chips not being attended to. Hence the very small areas usually affected. So says my local body shop! Must buy some touch up. And then remember to use it!
Has rust been an issue on the W124? - I mean serious rust like the 210's.

 

[Merclad]

The 210's have had plenty of rusr issues as is well known, but I was surprised to see Merclad found a few with a fair bit of rust. Normally these older ones are part of the Merc legend era. Hard to tell how owners have kept but was the rust coming from below the paint?

Bubbles on front wings as in the photo are often caused by stone chips not being attended to. Hence the very small areas usually affected. So says my local body shop! Must buy some touch up. And then remember to use it!
Has rust been an issue on the W124? - I mean serious rust like the 210's.

Thanks Adam, 3146 and Hawk for the info. I have to say that I've been very surprised with the amount of rust I've seen on these too. Before I set my sights on the 124, I looked at a few 190s (having owned this before) and found all of them to be pretty much rust free (with the exception of a few acceptable small bits here and there).

I thought the same would apply to the 124 - but unless I've just been very unlucky, of the 10 or so I've looked at so far I'd say 7 had significant corrosion. This was mostly around the front arches and sills. I'm not being particularly fussy here either. As in Adam's car pic, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the odd patch for cars of this age. That looked very clean indeed.

I'm looking to arrange some more viewings this week so I'll keep you posted.

Carl

 

[stargazerplus]

The W124 has a design flaw which allows dirt to collect behind the wing where you can see these rust bubbles. It's well documented and not caused by stone chips.

 

[big x]

The W124 has a design flaw which allows dirt to collect behind the wing where you can see these rust bubbles. It's well documented and not caused by stone chips.

Correct. It has to be said however that the average 12 year old MB has more panal rust than say a Fiat Punto (I exclude the SL here as they seem much better protected.)
Where the W124 scores over the W210 is that they do not rust out the front cross member or spring perches.
On the other hand the W202/W210 sills are much better designed and are bombproof.
I've noticed another design flaw on my W202...the side of the rear bumpers move very slightly at speed and rub through the paintwork.
A potential area that could write off a W124 is the rear subframe mounting point.It's very hard to see this area but if a W124 has rusting rear arches and rear jacking points it indicates potential problems.What kills older cars in this country is salted roads and quite high winter temperatures which means a faster chemical reaction.Drive a car and park it up for a week and these areas never get a chance to dry out.


adam

 

[hawk20]

Very Interesting. Do you agree with the general view that later Mercs have addressed these problems?

 

[big x]

Very Interesting. Do you agree with the general view that later Mercs have addressed these problems?

No.They only started full galvanization from late 04 although I do believe all MB soft tops have always had better protection (and perhaps less winter use !)
Audi,Volvo,Saab and Lexus are the corrosion free makes.Peugeot are also good.If you see corrosion on these it's normally badly repaired accident damage.
It's always amazed me that BMW and Mercedes have never fully galvanized their cars like Audi have always done.I suppose if your sales increase year on year you can do no wrong from a management point of view.
In this months Popular Mechanics magazine there is an article on a 1997 Jag.The photo's underneath show no rust protection whatsoever....and plenty of rust developing.My 1997 C180 on the other hand has no rust underneath,it's all well finished with thick protection materials.

adam

 

[hawk20]

My 1997 C180 on the other hand has no rust underneath,it's all well finished with thick protection materials.

adam

Odd then that I've read several 1997 E class owners with spring perch and other quite major rust problems. You would think the E would be at least as well protected as the C???

 

[big x]

Odd then that I've read several 1997 E class owners with spring perch and other quite major rust problems. You would think the E would be at least as well protected as the C???

The only perch failures I've heard about on the W202 have been stress fractures on C36's during racetrack use.
The W210's are of similar design so my guess is the greater weight of the diesel and V8 engines causes hairline cracks in the sealent with movement.Over time corrosion becomes extensive hidden behind the mastic leading to sudden failure (often reversing on full lock).
The door edges are better finished on the W202,you don't find sharp edges on the metalwork where the paint only adheres very thinnly.
It's all about attention to detail...small things add up and cause big problems years later.

adam

 

[hawk20]

The only perch failures I've heard about on the W202 have been stress fractures on C36's during racetrack use.
The W210's are of similar design so my guess is the greater weight of the diesel and V8 engines causes hairline cracks in the sealent with movement.Over time corrosion becomes extensive hidden behind the mastic leading to sudden failure (often reversing on full lock).
The door edges are better finished on the W202,you don't find sharp edges on the metalwork where the paint only adheres very thinnly.
It's all about attention to detail...small things add up and cause big problems years later.

adam

You seem very knowledgeable on this. You in the business? Part of my interest is that I spent far too much, having fallen for an S320cdi, and when I heard the rust storiies on these threads got concerned about my plan to hold on to it to justify the frightening cost! Dec 05 registered. From what you say this date should be safe to hold onto???

But more important, how is Merclad doing since I don't want to hijack his thread?

 

[big x]

You seem very knowledgeable on this. You in the business? Part of my interest is that I spent far too much, having fallen for an S320cdi, and when I heard the rust storiies on these threads got concerned about my plan to hold on to it to justify the frightening cost! Dec 05 registered. From what you say this date should be safe to hold onto???

But more important, how is Merclad doing since I don't want to hijack his thread?

Very fine car you've got there..enjoy..it will last many many years.

Most people don't keep their cars long enough to have to worry about corrosion.
Sort of like musical chairs....one day in the distant future somebody may get stuck with it.
I'm a cameraman,not in the car trade but do have an eye for detail.

adam