E300 Hybrid - don't buy it for the mpg

[simonrip]

For anyone thinking of buying an E300 hybrid, I would think that the real-world mpg might be the deciding factor.

The official figures are 65mpg+, but obviously that is not going to be achievable with normal driving. I do a lot of miles on hilly B roads, interspersed with a few longer motorway runs, and my E300 average mpg so far is 45. I would think more typical drivers would expect to get 50mpg. The hybrid does really encourage you to drive economically though, with an eye on maximising 'free' coasting. If you drove it just like a normal car without changing your driving style at all, then you would be disappointed at the pumps.

Setting the cruise at 70mph on a flat stretch of the M40, gave me an average of 50mpg, and at 65mph I was getting 55mpg. Not bad, but of course the hybrid doesn't help at all on the flat, you can only conserve fuel on the downhill stretches and in traffic by coasting for short distances.

So, you may think I would be a little disappointed, but far from it. Apart from a breakdown at the start which soured our relationship, this is the most enjoyable car I have owned and I would recommend it to anyone. I love it, and my wife loves it. It changes the way you drive, and for a petrol-head it is an eye-opener to find that I enjoy trying to maximise the time spent driving on electric power. Research by Nissan has found that hybrid or electric car owners are more relaxed behind the wheel, and that has certainly been my experience.

If you really want to maximise your mpg then buy a small, diesel A class. Or an E220, as the real world economy will be almost the same, and it is much cheaper than the E300. However, if you want to really enjoy every drive, and in fact change how you view driving, then the E300 starts to make sense.

Simon

 

[Alex Crow]

Thanks Simon, a nice balanced read and real world MPG figures too - just what we need here.

For my money, the possible future repair and/or replacement costs would put me off the E300 - they might be worth nothing after 6 years when the batteries fail!

That said, if money were not a problem and I did not need to worry about resale values or repair costs, I too would love to own and drive one of these amazing machines.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Simon, I am with you on just about all your comments, MPG I was achieving an average 55mpg but recently dropped to 47. In my case it's about the CO2 rating and how that affects taxation. Like you, I do like the quiet and serene movement when running electric, it is a joy to drive.
Would I buy a 3+ year old one? Not a chance, as has been suggested I do wonder what happens/when the batteries are end of life whether anyone will have the appetite for the 9k bill to replace them? Maybe costs will have reduced considerably by then of course.....

 

[d215yq]

For my money, the possible future repair and/or replacement costs would put me off the E300 - they might be worth nothing after 6 years when the batteries fail!

Everyone said that about priuses and over 12 years later the batteries still work perfectly... in fact the drivetrain has proven to be cheaper to maintain and indeed outlast many of the new tech diesels which are scrapped or very expensive to repair at 8-10years.

Having said that just because toyota can make something trouble free that works and lasts sadly doesn´t mean that everyone can so i assume the jury will be out in 10 years time from now (or maybe sooner)

 

[MBDevotee]

BUT

You won't get the claimed MPG in a diesel either.

Most people buy these cars for the CO2 rating for co car tax - and the Hybrid scores well.

For good real world economy, buy a Kia Rio diesel......

 

[TheBluetac]

one of the nicest, most affable posts I have read on here.

5000 miles in my E300 so far and returning 50mpg on some very crappy roads. Very impressed with it and definately enjoying the £10 tax!!!

As Simon says it is a lovely drive and I enjoying pitting myself against the onboard computer on those more monotonous drives.

 

[simonrip]

Simon, I am with you on just about all your comments, MPG I was achieving an average 55mpg but recently dropped to 47. In my case it's about the CO2 rating and how that affects taxation. Like you, I do like the quiet and serene movement when running electric, it is a joy to drive.
Would I buy a 3+ year old one? Not a chance, as has been suggested I do wonder what happens/when the batteries are end of life whether anyone will have the appetite for the 9k bill to replace them? Maybe costs will have reduced considerably by then of course.....

Hi John,

I would actually make the reverse argument. Worries about the batteries will be certain to have a major impact on values of used cars. In which case, they would be very good value. I am leasing mine, as I was unsure about the hybrid tech, and I wanted to try before I bought. I would be very tempted to buy a 2 year old one at 50% off, with extended warranty, and set some money aside in case the batteries go pop again.

Mind you, I used to own a TVR, so I have a history of owning potential money-pits.

Simon

 

[John Laidlaw]

Hi John,

I would actually make the reverse argument. Worries about the batteries will be certain to have a major impact on values of used cars. In which case, they would be very good value. I am leasing mine, as I was unsure about the hybrid tech, and I wanted to try before I bought. I would be very tempted to buy a 2 year old one at 50% off, with extended warranty, and set some money aside in case the batteries go pop again.

Mind you, I used to own a TVR, so I have a history of owning potential money-pits.

Simon

Mine is leased as well Simon, similar reasons- I have my own company so this is a company car and I make considerable personal savings in tax compared with say an E350 or whatever.
I can see where you are coming from on the reduced value, what I can say is that the lease deal I got was prorata considerably cheaper on a 2 year deal than a 3 or 4, which suggests to me that MB have done their sums and concluded that there will be a market for them 2 years old, but the risk is higher releasing a 3+ year old model in the market. As was posted earlier, Toyota got it right with the batteries so no reason to believe (apart from your unfortuunate beginning) that MB won't as well. I would still be nervous though!

 

[Alex Crow]

I would agree that the Prius has proved itself, and that particular car has no major life ending vices.

The same cannot be said of many other cars - the Tesla being very disappointing, apparently.

If the MB batteries only cost £1000 I am sure there would be much less worry about it, but the fact stands that MB are relatively new to full size hybrid cars (the E300 being the first to appear in numbers here in the UK). They have understandably developed the car with the best of intentions, and of course the best of engineers - but it remains untested.

 

[toby1]

It will be interesting to see what happens to these after they're 6 years old or so. One would think MB has taken apart a Prius or Lexus and nosed about to learn.

 

[simonrip]

It is interesting that even those of us who own hybrids worry about reliability and repair costs. If we do, and we have invested in the cars, then it is obvious that this will be a deal-breaker for most second hand buyers.

I am also a little concerned to see that What Car suggest a target price of 36,000 for a new E300 AMG Estate against 44,000 list. That does not bode well for future residuals either.

The conclusion seems to be that the E300 is an interesting experiment, and very nice to borrow for a while, but best not to own one unless you can pick it up for next to nothing a few years down the line.

Simon

 

[television]

it will be interesting to see how many large battery makers tool up for this wide open market, sure there is a lot of re salvageable material in them.

If it is going to be the thing of the future it will happen.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Intersting thread- going back to Simon's original message- one thing for sure they are lovely to drive and very rewarding, I agree they do make a more relaxing drive and you do find yourself trying to increase the MPG/great experience.....

 

[Scoob]

Quite surprised that you're seeing similar mpg figures I get in my C350 CDI - I too live in a very hilly area, and it's certainly the hills that kill mpg most effectively.

Longer runs, irrespective of speed, can return over 50mpg over the trip easily if the terrain is flat. Thought the last 4 miles of any journey I do (assuming it's heading home) is never going to be economical.

Scoob.

 

[simonrip]

The current hybrid system is clearly a first generation system. You can only coast for very short distances (hundreds of metres rather than km), and as soon as you do more than rest your foot on the throttle the diesel engine fires up. It is fun trying to keep it coasting as long as possible, but it will never be far enough to have a significant impact on mpg.

I read recently that the 2nd generation hybrid Porsche Cayenne can now coast for a few km on electric power, and at a speed of up to 70mph. Presumably Mercedes, or their supplier, will have a similar upgrade waiting in the wings, or will adopt a plug-in hybrid for more models. You will still never get the extra cost back in fuel savings over a standard car, but back to the point of my original post again - surprisingly that isn't really the point.

Just an aside: in case Mercedes technical has nothing better to do than read forum posts - you need to better integrate the cruise control for the E300. It never coasts on downhill sections of the motorway, which means it is more economical to keep switching off the cruise control. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[drdel]

In the US there are companies who are dismantling battery packs and replacing the 'dead' cells since these packs are built of numerous 'standard' batteries.

The gamble is with the cost of an MB battery pack in 3/4/5 year times. A sales exec. in a dealer I know said they'd taken one in P/x and they'd not had one person express interest in it !!!

 

[turbopete]

The current hybrid system is clearly a first generation system. You can only coast for very short distances (hundreds of metres rather than km), and as soon as you do more than rest your foot on the throttle the diesel engine fires up. It is fun trying to keep it coasting as long as possible, but it will never be far enough to have a significant impact on mpg.

I read recently that the 2nd generation hybrid Porsche Cayenne can now coast for a few km on electric power, and at a speed of up to 70mph. Presumably Mercedes, or their supplier, will have a similar upgrade waiting in the wings, or will adopt a plug-in hybrid for more models. You will still never get the extra cost back in fuel savings over a standard car, but back to the point of my original post again - surprisingly that isn't really the point.

Just an aside: in case Mercedes technical has nothing better to do than read forum posts - you need to better integrate the cruise control for the E300. It never coasts on downhill sections of the motorway, which means it is more economical to keep switching off the cruise control. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

there are lots of things mercedes do that arent much sense, especially when almost every other manufacturer does things that mercedes cant/wont do but mercedes can come up with almost useless 'gadgets' etc like night vision systems etc.

but that debate is for another thread

 

[John Laidlaw]

Quite surprised that you're seeing similar mpg figures I get in my C350 CDI - I too live in a very hilly area, and it's certainly the hills that kill mpg most effectively.

Longer runs, irrespective of speed, can return over 50mpg over the trip easily if the terrain is flat. Thought the last 4 miles of any journey I do (assuming it's heading home) is never going to be economical.

Scoob.

In saying that I have had 62mpg+ on a long A road run a couple of times- my average daily drive I fear isn't the best for getting the best MPG

 

[Scoob]

In saying that I have had 62mpg+ on a long A road run a couple of times- my average daily drive I fear isn't the best for getting the best MPG

I've managed to average 55mpg on a 20 mile journey from Aylesbury to Oxford, that's including driving through Aylesbury, A road (40 - 60) to the start of the hills. Was very impressed by that.

On a long, steady run, the mpg bar chart thingy is off the scale, sadly I cannot adjust the scale (50mpg) but the "since start" mpg will show into the 60's if reset once I'm on the main road - it's the hills starting out that kill the average. I often see just 14.7mpg when climbing the hill in the morning.

Generally I see around 500 miles between fill-ups, I usually fill up when the car dips below 1/4 tank, and only ever top up to the first click. Calculated average mpg through mixed driving (none of my trips are particularly economical sadly, bar the Oxford/Aylesbury run) is about 45ish, which is ok for a large, luxury car in my book. If I was back to doing 500+ miles a week again I suspect it'd hurt more. Still, the old (petrol) car I used for that journey didn't do much better than 45, but it was getting old.

So, yeah, I think these cars are great on long runs, returning 50+ mpg with ease and more with a little care. Real-world driving though they get a bit less. When I first got the car I challenged myself to get as good an mpg as I could, 50+ average over the tank was doable. Now that I don't worry too much and potter or get my toe down as the whim (or traffic) takes me, I get mid 40's, which is fine.

Scoob.

 

[Headhurts]

Cruise control

Mine does switch the engine off going downhill with cruise control on.
I have had 53 mpg shown but averaging 47 mpg but I guess still freeing up having only done around 3000 miles.
Overall loving the car and my first Mercedes.