electronics non mb

ajlsl600

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those regular on this forum know what i think of modern electronics on cars ,machinery and about anything else. here example
amoung a very large fleet of equipment i have some astra trucks .right now, i have one that requires a VCM .this was produced by Wabco for astra,iveco only . now the truck cant move because astra,iveco dont stock any and wabco wont,cant sell me one because of their contract with iveco,astra. the truck is otherwise ok ,its a 2007 model ,not exactly classic.
thru other sources we found a replacement VCM but astra ,iveco,wabco wont programme it for us
what a ballache ,loss of production . lesson 1. buy leading makes of equipment,benz daf volvo,trucks, i did not buy these....lesson 2. buy a fair number of the electronic control kit at or near to the time of purchase. lesson 3 price contracts for equipment replacement ,max 8 yrs. this WILL cause loss of contracts due to pricing this in.
this aggro is enough of a ballache when yr parked outside the dealers.. 5000 miles away this electronic stuff is killing us ,and hence my loathing of it .
 

LostKiwi

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I hear you Andy...
Some years ago I outfitted a Defender for remote camping (Sahara/North Africa). I deliberately chose a 300TDi as the base vehicle due to the complete absence of electronics. The last thing I wanted was to find myself in a situation where an electronic sensor failure brought the vehicle to a halt miles from anywhere with days of walking across sand dunes to get to the nearest town.
 

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i don't blame you. the charity I work with runs Iveco Daily vans. the electrics on those are a NIGHTMARE. theyre worse, in reliability stakes, than MB electrics, using this forum (where people come to complain so it makes things look worse) as a basis for how reliable (or not) MB electronics are! now, for our use (and yes I'm aware they have their problems) I have said from the day I started working there, that Transits were the way forward. yes people say they have common issues, ive not had any issues with the ones ive had through various jobs but I'm sure, like any vehicle they DO have problems. and people will say 'we do loads of xxxxxxxxx repairs on transits' and I'm sure they do. but looking around as I travel around (certainly in the north, both around here and Cumbria) id estimate that around 50% of ALL vans are Transits, so yes theyre going to have more visits for repairs if they sell as many units as MB vans, VW vans, Renault/Nissan/Vauxhall (badge engineering) vans and any others ive missed, COMBINED. (and no I don't have any solid figures, before anyone asks, its just how it appears)

for our use, where we do a LOT of stop/start type driving (delivering and collecting furniture etc so an average of 12 stops per day plus loading/unloading etc) the Sprinters are both too expensive and as we know, it seems the 4 cylinder diesels seem prone to timing chain/guide related issues, particularly under stop/start conditions, so we would basically be buying potential issues from new!

but back to my original point. yes Iveco electronics are RUBBISH. then again the rest of the vehicle is too (in my experience)
 
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ajlsl600

ajlsl600

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I hear you Andy...
Some years ago I outfitted a Defender for remote camping (Sahara/North Africa). I deliberately chose a 300TDi as the base vehicle due to the complete absence of electronics. The last thing I wanted was to find myself in a situation where an electronic sensor failure brought the vehicle to a halt miles from anywhere with days of walking across sand dunes to get to the nearest town.


very wise, and sure there are some dried out bodies in the desert due to a five quid sensor that was a tech improvement. i think not. any motor machine can will break down desert or not but all this new shite does so fairly often and most owners dont for examlpe have star in the boot .i would understand it better if the diagnosis was a completely on board facility. for a 60 k plus car i would expect the display to report 1 the problem 2, the component location 3. the likely cause and 4 a viable ,at least get you home solution .THAT would be tech working for ME. and NOT everyone but me.
 
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ajlsl600

ajlsl600

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i don't blame you. the charity I work with runs Iveco Daily vans. the electrics on those are a NIGHTMARE. theyre worse, in reliability stakes, than MB electrics, using this forum (where people come to complain so it makes things look worse) as a basis for how reliable (or not) MB electronics are! now, for our use (and yes I'm aware they have their problems) I have said from the day I started working there, that Transits were the way forward. yes people say they have common issues, ive not had any issues with the ones ive had through various jobs but I'm sure, like any vehicle they DO have problems. and people will say 'we do loads of xxxxxxxxx repairs on transits' and I'm sure they do. but looking around as I travel around (certainly in the north, both around here and Cumbria) id estimate that around 50% of ALL vans are Transits, so yes theyre going to have more visits for repairs if they sell as many units as MB vans, VW vans, Renault/Nissan/Vauxhall (badge engineering) vans and any others ive missed, COMBINED. (and no I don't have any solid figures, before anyone asks, its just how it appears)

for our use, where we do a LOT of stop/start type driving (delivering and collecting furniture etc so an average of 12 stops per day plus loading/unloading etc) the Sprinters are both too expensive and as we know, it seems the 4 cylinder diesels seem prone to timing chain/guide related issues, particularly under stop/start conditions, so we would basically be buying potential issues from new!

but back to my original point. yes Iveco electronics are RUBBISH. then again the rest of the vehicle is too (in my experience)

the biggest problem with astra iveco is it is almost the case that no two are completely identical ! i have around 18 incl ADT dump trucks. and i agree they are rubbish and if i never see another after april i wont cry. however i was demonstrating a trend and not just a specific and i already know you are unlikely to agree with my view . however it makes for healthy debate and thats grand with me . yr in a different enviroment, so a phone call, trip accross the road often resolves yr issue albeit at an often unbelievable cost
i have been on about ,as i sure yr aware electronics for a LONG time and i firmly believe i have a point .

example some yrs ago i was in Nairobi at a major caterpillar equipment seminar. with many friends in the trade i sat ,ate listened and drank .after i rounded up on the CAT head man from the states and interviewed him on CAT tech and in particular CAT tech in Africa, his response Africa was 3% of their worldwide market and therefore of little import. a week later i was at a cement factory on the coast looking at a freshly built up D10 ready for work someone cut the ribbon and we headed for the bar .while at that... a local plant clerk wandered over to the machine, saw no plant number on it,feeling efficient he promptly organised the welder to weld CW 01 or the like on the side of it. brain fried ,special build ,machine stood for 2 weeks . great tech... NOW real tech would have thought about that !!!! a squat switch in the seat for example ?
 
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turbopete

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the biggest problem with astra iveco is it is almost the case that no two are completely identical ! i have around 18 incl ADT dump trucks. and i agree they are rubbish and if i never see another after april i wont cry. however i was demonstrating a trend and not just a specific and i already know you are unlikely to agree with my view . however it makes for healthy debate and thats grand with me . yr in a different enviroment, so a phone call, trip accross the road often resolves yr issue albeit at an often unbelievable cost
i have been on about ,as i sure yr aware electronics for a LONG time and i firmly believe i have a point .

example some yrs ago i wa in Nairobi at a major caterpillar equipment seminar. with many friends in the trade i sat ,ate listened and drank .after i rounded up on the CAT head man from the states and interviewed him on CAT tech and in particular CAT tech in Africa, his response Africa was 3% of their worldwide market and therefore of little import. a week later i was at a cement factory on the coast looking at a freshly built up D10 ready for work someone cut the ribbon and we headed for the bar .while at that... a local plant clerk wandered over to the machine, saw no plant number on it,feeling efficient he promptly organised the welder to weld CW 01 or the like on the side of it. brain fried ,special build ,machine stood for 2 weeks . great tech... NOW real tech would have thought about that !!!! a squat switch in the seat for example ?

totally agree with you. whilst I admit there is a degree of electronics that are, in general, necessary for emissions and fuel efficiency etc, there are a number that aren't. for example, our 2015 daily had a box attached to the rear 'chassis' for adding a towbar which the dealers will NOT remove the coding for. the van has not and will NEVER have a towbar fitted (we keep them till they die) and was caught (causing damage to where the wiring clips onto the 'ecu') on a low wall on a ramped driveway by the driver of that van at the time. this means that the mileage display on the dash flashes CONSTANTLY. I mean, seriously, whats wrong with a simple plug and play system that stays dormant unless a towbar is connected? it wouldn't be difficult to do (a set up like the rear foglight cut off system on a 7 pin trailer lighting socket would probably work) ok a minor niggle, but annoying. another van constantly claims the oil is diluted (DPF equipped) and needs changed, despite having been changed (at the time) less than 10 miles previously!!! I mean, seriously?
 
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ajlsl600

ajlsl600

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totally agree with you. whilst I admit there is a degree of electronics that are, in general, necessary for emissions and fuel efficiency etc, there are a number that aren't. for example, our 2015 daily had a box attached to the rear 'chassis' for adding a towbar which the dealers will NOT remove the coding for. the van has not and will NEVER have a towbar fitted (we keep them till they die) and was caught (causing damage to where the wiring clips onto the 'ecu') on a low wall on a ramped driveway by the driver of that van at the time. this means that the mileage display on the dash flashes CONSTANTLY. I mean, seriously, whats wrong with a simple plug and play system that stays dormant unless a towbar is connected? it wouldn't be difficult to do (a set up like the rear foglight cut off system on a 7 pin trailer lighting socket would probably work) ok a minor niggle, but annoying. another van constantly claims the oil is diluted (DPF equipped) and needs changed, despite having been changed (at the time) less than 10 miles previously!!! I mean, seriously?


we on the same page! this tech when its designed and fit for purpose is grand, my concerns ,a lot of it aint .and forgive me seems hell bent on making things ,at least for the end user ,ie ME,YOU,far more aggro and far more costly , i have plenty to do on a weekend. suspect you similar to me if the tech does something i used to have to do myself efficiently and in a cost effective manner such that i can foget about it period its got my vote .if it dont i NOT interested ,cant see the point
 

M80

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"Beyond economical repair" is a term that springs to mind for many motors in otherwise good order that are goosed because of faulty electronics, and required coding, if still available, if still supported.

That somewhere up the line means another needlessly produced new one, choking the planet with industrial pollution and using up resources.
Good tax revenue though.

At least with cars over time there becomes an availability of these pre loved bits, SAM's are a good example.
 

Frontstep

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Soon we will be having all electric cars and nothing will happen without power.
It will communicate with your local main agent and they will know whats up with it and where it is you will be kept quite literally in the dark till someone arrives to get you going and turn over your wallet.

Imagine a minimum wage youth in some call centre controlling your car.
 

M80

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Sounds like fun for the Chinese and the Russians.
 

LostKiwi

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There has already been a demo of remote hacking of some existing vehicles.
 

Frontstep

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I have already tracked the youths car with its Insurance Black Box app.
All I need is a bring it home button...................
 

turbopete

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There has already been a demo of remote hacking of some existing vehicles.
precisely, but when remote dealer access becomes more common and self driving becomes more of a reality (which to a degree I hate the idea of) then surely hacking will become more common, or at least I think it will. some security features (like keyless entry) are ALREADY compromised thanks to a form of 'hack' (range extender or whatever it is they use) and cars can be driven away. imagine if they are programmed to drive away by themselves by a hacker remotely!
 

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OMG... The brave new world!
 
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ajlsl600

ajlsl600

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whilst away some yrs ago my wife bought herself an all singing,dancing washing machine .it went wrong every two weeks, the maker sent techy out to fix it, only that i hope! 5 or six times, eventually replaced after water ruined the control board. Where was the control board. UNDER the water pump!!!!. i ask , who the f designed that!!!!!!!! ,there is shxx looads of room around the inside of washing machine case ..
 
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ajlsl600

ajlsl600

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no. i buy the under 200 euro ,no electronics machines i even have a spare one. when they screwed at about 10 yr i get another, strip useful bits to stock and dump the rest.
 

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