Engine out job!?

[Conor]

So guys,

I've been curious about this for a while and before any one gets alarmed.. I don't plan on popping it out on in the car park in front of my flat. I'm just generally curious about what is involved.

Often times you hear people talk about getting the engine out to do various bits to the internals. I believe it is a big job and don't doubt it.

That said, what is involved? I've not actually found any straight forward guides for newer Mercedes.

Interested to hear what special tools are needed such as crane, engine supports, parts broken in the process. Do you typically take the transmission out with it or separate them before extraction?

This renewed interest is based on the fact that my car is now smoky on cold startup.. see video below. I am beginning to believe that the valve stem seals might be on their way out.

I'm also curious about the valve seals.. I see some lads doing them in-situ with special tools and tricks to ensure the valves don't fall into cylinder.

 

[ATP7]

Friend of mine who is a mechanic changed he's vw passat's petrol engine against a diesel engine, but he said it wasn't rocket science for him maybe not but sure it is a big job... I'm also curious what exactly is involved in that job

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[EmilysDad]

Engines & transmissions are usually removed together, especially autos. The last engine I removed was from my MKIII Cortina .... so long before you were thought of It's not hard, you just need to be methodical, but obviously it's a BIG lump you're removing & not something you & a mate can lift , you'll need a hoist.

 

[Uncle Benz]

On Mercedes I always remove the transmission first, then the engine is a straight lift up out of the bay. I don’t know if it’s possible to lift engine and transmission out together, I do it my way because I work alone. I can manage by myself this way.

 

[EmilysDad]

.... and tricks to ensure the valves don't fall into cylinder.

There's a fitting that allows you to use compressed air into the bore via the spark plug hole .... never used one though.
Many years ago my Dad had the heads off his Granada, he'd finished the job & then saw the row of valve stem seal still sitting on a shelf. I used string/cord fed into the bore via the spark plug hole & then wound the piston up by hand so that the string supported the valve. I made a tool to compress the valve spring while we removed the collets. It worked very well.

 

[ajlsl600]

Very clever,that. Think if one finds out piston is flat or near flat top one can put piston on tdc for that cyl then compress valve spring remove collets ,change seal, and refit all.but I would want to know distance between piston and valve at tdc BEFORE trying it.

 

[EmilysDad]

Very clever,that. Think if one finds out piston is flat or near flat top one can put piston on tdc for that cyl then compress valve spring remove collets ,change seal, and refit all.but I would want to know distance between piston and valve at tdc BEFORE trying it.

It's not difficult. Just wind the engine over slowly until you can feel resistance as the string compresses. Obviously you leave one end of the string out so you can pull it all back out again

 

[Conor]

Very good responses.

Interesting about the stem seal replacement.. I will do more research. That feels like a job I could do over a few summer evenings if we make it to then.. Nice thing bout that is I can close down the bonnet and take a break and resume later.

My thoughts would be that I would then recover the car to a local MB garage to get it timed etc.

I read online that the tools are expensive. I wonder is that the whole job, to time it and everything. What else is needed for the seal replacement only? Compressor kit, string, seals?

 

[Jim2]

Friend of mine who is a mechanic changed he's vw passat's petrol engine against a diesel engine, but he said it wasn't rocket science for him maybe not but sure it is a big job... I'm also curious what exactly is involved in that job

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Changing from petrol to diesel would not be too difficult, if he had the donor car parked beside the receiving car...the electrics would take a bit of figuring out though.

 

[Jim2]

Engines & transmissions are usually removed together, especially autos. The last engine I removed was from my MKIII Cortina .... so long before you were thought of It's not hard, you just need to be methodical, but obviously it's a BIG lump you're removing & not something you & a mate can lift , you'll need a hoist.

 

[Jim2]

One firm that I worked for, were also a self-drive company and Automatic's were in big demand for USA tourists. Problem was , Automatics back then were not a popular choice for motorists, so were generally very scarce. We used to convert manual transmission cars to Automatic, mostly Cortina MK4's. It happened so often, it became common place. Car on lift, remove manual gearbox. Then remove carpeting and pedal cluster from under the dash. Cut out the floor panel and replace it with the auto-transmission panel. Remove clutch assembly, replace it with the torque converter, fit the new auto box, replace carpeting etc. Job done. The cars of that era were generally much simpler and easier to work on though. There's not a one rule fits all when it comes to removing engines and gear boxe's... for most front wheel drive cars, the gearboxes come out reasonably easy...and its not too difficult to remove the whole assembly either. Rear wheel drive vehicle's can also have their engine's / transmission's removed either as one unit or separately. It all depends on the vehicle. For Mercedes though, the engine and transmission are big and heavy units to be dealing with.

 

[ATP7]

Changing from petrol to diesel would not be too difficult, if he had the donor car parked beside the receiving car...the electrics would take a bit of figuring out though.

Yeah, he said he needed to change few things but untill this day these 10 years the car has been working absolutely fine

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[EmilysDad]

.....

I read online that the tools are expensive. I wonder is that the whole job, to time it and everything. What else is needed for the seal replacement only? Compressor kit, string, seals?

I know there are tools that compress the valve springs with the head in situ, but I've never seen them in the flesh/metal. Most look like a big G clamp & are intended for use with the head removed. You can spend a lot or a little on them
The one I made used the tappet rail mountings ... crude but effective

 

[sonic]

Back in the late 60's I was living in Germany, I & most of my mates had VW Beatles. We could swap a Beatle engine in about 40 minutes.

 

[Jim2]

Yeah, he said he needed to change few things but untill this day these 10 years the car has been working absolutely fine

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Sure, why not? I mean both petrol and diesel version of most cars are available to buy. Both types roll off the same production line up to the point where they split, Left =Diesel, Right Petrol, they share many common assemblies. Only after that point are changes made, so yes, its possible to change from petrol to diesel and vice-versa.

 

[Jim2]

Back in the late 60's I was living in Germany, I & most of my mates had VW Beatles. We could swap a Beatle engine in about 40 minutes.

I served my apprenticeship in a VW dealership....when you look back at it, they were incredibly well engineered. Travel on the ice or in the desert, or across fields. And very easy and economical to service. 4 1/2 pints of engine oil, clean the mesh filter, 2 new paper gaskets, tighten the ring of 10 mm bolts, check gearbox oil level, 4 grease nipples on the front axle beams, and two each side on the trailer arms., blow out the brake dust ( asbesto's . ) with compressed air. Job done !!! And as you said about engine in / out... we could do a clutch replacement ( two of us ) in 45 mins. But it often took a bit longer to fit a clutch cable, especially if it slipped off the hook on the pedal assembly inside the tunnel.
Anyway, here is a few pics that I recently took at a meeting. Brings back the memories...

 

[sonic]

I served my apprenticeship in a VW dealership....when you look back at it, they were incredibly well engineered. Travel on the ice or in the desert, or across fields. And very easy and economical to service. 4 1/2 pints of engine oil, clean the mesh filter, 2 new paper gaskets, tighten the ring of 10 mm bolts, check gearbox oil level, 4 grease nipples on the front axle beams, and two each side on the trailer arms., blow out the brake dust ( asbesto's . ) with compressed air. Job done !!! And as you said about engine in / out... we could do a clutch replacement ( two of us ) in 45 mins. But it often took a bit longer to fit a clutch cable, especially if it slipped off the hook on the pedal assembly inside the tunnel.
Anyway, here is a few pics that I recently took at a meeting. Brings back the memories...

That’s a pre 1958 version with the small back window. Weren’t they cable brakes all around? I had two a 1960 1200cc & a 1966 1300cc, both great cars. Did all my own servicing, & I did change a clutch cable once. Great pictures thanks for sharing.

 

[Conor]

Wow, @Jim2 that Beetle is beautiful.

It honestly seems like something that you might see in a Vogue magazine about some modern take on an old Beetle and tweaked etc for the quintessential lady. Kind of like Urban/Overfinch/Kahn.

 

[00slk]

I too learnt the trade at Audi/VW '79 -84. Never owned a VW, well don't think I did?? Had An Audi 80 Loved the Audi 200T, very impressive

 

[ajlsl600]

Back in the late 60's I was living in Germany, I & most of my mates had VW Beatles. We could swap a Beatle engine in about 40 minutes.

Makers have changed all that. Its apple cars now.only thing that matters are the in car toys,many of which owners never use or understand,yet the lemmings que around the block (apple ).
Nobody tells the customer that if you need to change the starter its engine out job.or that one can be forced into updates to software YOU dont own, that overwrite any "improvements "YOU paid for AND make yr motor LESS ecconomic !! Very clever.