Engine software update on diesels. Euro5 emissions standard.

[rorywquin]

We’ve received a second request to take the B-Class in to have the software update done. They use words like “mandatory recall”.

From a legal / MOT perspective do I need to get the update done?

Car is a 2014 and running fine. I see no reason to change anything.

 

[Blobcat]

Can you post up a pic of the letter (personal details removed natch...)

 

[rorywquin]

Can you post up a pic of the letter (personal details removed natch...)

Here it is.

 

[Gazwould]

Egr hammer time .

 

[Blobcat]

Here it is.
View attachment 81112

Some very careful corporate words there…

“Mandatory in Germany” is how I read it, so unless they’re going to warrant NOX sensors and emissions equipment following their update I’d be telling them to jog on

 

[EmilysDad]

Some very careful corporate words there…

“Mandatory in Germany” is how I read it, so unless they’re going to warrant NOX sensors and emissions equipment following their update I’d be telling them to jog on

I received 2 letters from MB re the software & ignored both of them. They eventually phoned me & asked when it was convenient to book my car in. I just said that the web was full of tales of woe re this software 'upgrade' & I wasn't prepared to fix something that wasn't broken. Fair enough she said & that was the last I heard from them

 

[Blobcat]

Doing a bit more reading online it looks like the German authorities are requiring Mercedes to do the updates on all the cars that have the emissions software features that lead to lower tax bands.

As a great many of those vehicles aren’t in Germany then it’s not quite as simple for Mercedes to rectify their errors as what’s law in Germany isn’t necessarily law over here… I expect the German authorities will be monitoring how many cars get rectified and will no doubt fine Mercedes if they don’t reach a required target. This explains the pressure letters owners are receiving.

My point would be that I was happy with the economy and emissions when I purchased the vehicle and none of the updates appear to improve fuel economy or AdBlue usage (in those that use it) so I’d not be prepared to have them alter my car.

 

[rorywquin]

Doing a bit more reading online it looks like the German authorities are requiring Mercedes to do the updates on all the cars that have the emissions software features that lead to lower tax bands.

As a great many of those vehicles aren’t in Germany then it’s not quite as simple for Mercedes to rectify their errors as what’s law in Germany isn’t necessarily law over here… I expect the German authorities will be monitoring how many cars get rectified and will no doubt fine Mercedes if they don’t reach a required target. This explains the pressure letters owners are receiving.

My point would be that I was happy with the economy and emissions when I purchased the vehicle and none of the updates appear to improve fuel economy or AdBlue usage (in those that use it) so I’d not be prepared to have them alter my car.

Cheers.
I agree.

 

[alexanderfoti]

In the bin it goes.

 

[Botus]

its Mandatory Mercedes meet their legal obligation to have a legal car on the road
its your moral obligation to get it done ASAP
its the MOT tester legal duty to measure it correctly and fail it if you don't - but they've never tested any of them and aren't going to start now
and utter madness for you not too - as the flipping thing is deliberately filled with bugs and fake faults to make warning lights come on to get you back, wasting time and money filling their coffers diagnosing fake EML lights - the fact you get a free opportunity to rid it of this naughty rubbish the better.

if you want to argue with any other those utterly valid points, there's not much hope for mankind....

"it won't change your euro 5 emission standard" - no it won't change the paper work - that was correct - but it will stop so much death coming out of the exhaust - so it actually complies with the euro 5 standard for the first time ever

 

[M80]

as the flipping thing is deliberately filled with bugs and fake faults to make warning lights come on to get you back, wasting time and money filling their coffers diagnosing fake EML lights - the fact you get a free opportunity to rid it of this naughty rubbish the better.

If MB designed in these bugs on the original MAP,
why are they going to remove them in a later update MAP?

Unless these bugs were to preserve the NOX sensors and AdBlue systems that seem to fall over so easily post update.

Btw I'm conspiracy theorising about time issue within MAPs also. Although the one's I read of could just be gremlins rather than subversive nano bots.

 

[ajlsl600]

Some very careful corporate words there…

“Mandatory in Germany” is how I read it, so unless they’re going to warrant NOX sensors and emissions equipment following their update I’d be telling them to jog on

Exactly that if they tell me the update is mandatory the letter needs to incl any items no longer compatible with that update, and a warranty on any eml warnings.

 

[rorywquin]

blah blah moral obligation ,blah .......................but it will stop so much death coming out of the exhaust - so it actually complies with the euro 5 standard for the first time ever

~350 miles/month (Average over the time we’ve owned it), small 1600cc engine living in the countryside- I think I can live with the guilt if we choose not to get the “upgrade" done.

I wonder how my pollution compares to a S500/2010/500 (whatever that means), mums on the school run sitting with their engines idling while they wait for their kids or people who leave their engines running for 15 minutes every winter morning while the “engine warms up”?

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

CO2 kills the planet and NOx kills humans you could say we are caught between a rock and a hard place. Looking at my very low mileage nowadays my CO2 and NOx footprint couldn’t be much smaller certainly not something that bothers me. If I still have the diesel estate when the update letter arrives (it’s a 12 plate E class) without assurances in writing from MB it won’t get done.

 

[ajlsl600]

In writing and same as that. Loads on here get eml 5 min after update benz know all about the matter. . So for me if benz insist on. Update. I insist they cover costs of anything that triggers a "related" ( they have to PROVE) it is not related eml light.

 

[rorywquin]

.................. I insist they cover costs of anything that triggers a "related" ( they have to PROVE) it is not related eml light.

Which unfortunately, MB will never do.

 

[ajlsl600]

No worries. Car never going near any dealer update. So not a problem.

 

[Botus]

If MB designed in these bugs on the original MAP,
why are they going to remove them in a later update MAP?

Unless these bugs were to preserve the NOX sensors and AdBlue systems that seem to fall over so easily post update.

Btw I'm conspiracy theorising about time issue within MAPs also. Although the one's I read of could just be gremlins rather than subversive nano bots.

because the cat is out of the bag - investigating how criminal the manufacturers have been, on Mercedes, aside from the emission fiddle they found 4 separate fake faults and have been TOLD to get them out - reads all the TIPS documents

and as for cry babies with lots of other bugs and faulty sensors you currently believe you want to keep - get the law to support you.

With or without the emissions fix - if the NOx sensors are the originals they will play up, if the second generation they will play up, if the AdBblue is full of crystalising gunk it will play up - these have NOTHING to do with fitting the legal emission update - the Mk1 and Mk2 NOx sensors are just nasty budget flaky rubbish from the day they were manufactured (with quite a lot of growing evidence suggesting they were time related failures built in the design of the sensor to go alongside the special software controlling them). And if still on the car it would be far more sensible for you to know this today and force Merc to fit Mk3 ones alongside the the legal emissions update - just like the vast majority of countries that care about their citizen have mandated.

Its really very clear - To make the car work as well as they have come up with to date, there are 4 separate software updates that need applying, and two Mk3 sensors that need fitting to the car. Then it is ready to meet the law it was sold as meeting, and operating to the most economically serviceable set up you can have...

the coincidentally, 4th engine map update in its lifetime is mostly the emission bit and removal of two deliberate fake faults, (for most UK cars I would imagine few ever got the others, that afterall were almost as useless as each other). Then we have the others fixes related to Mk3 NOx sensors, which for the first ever time led to reliable operation of the AdBlue system and the car actually able to regen the DPF as designed. Meaning we end up with a car who's emission control system has a chance of operating, its had all the bug removal stuff they were told to make disappear and thus its a far more reliable vehicle

If keeping the car for more than a few months, the cost saved from DPF hell that's coming, far outweighs everything else. And if you use some nous they should be meeting the £50 purchase and £110 fitting costs of the two Mk3 NOx sensors it should have left the building with first time round - rather than you taking another day of work some time soon, and paying out a laughable £900 - and ending up in the very same place with all the updates applied after another breakdown ???

 

[ajlsl600]

If merc send me a letter. Come 4 update and correct nox sensors foc I am going if not. No chance.

 

[M80]

because the cat is out of the bag - investigating how criminal the manufacturers have been, on Mercedes, aside from the emission fiddle they found 4 separate fake faults and have been TOLD to get them out - reads all the TIPS documents

and as for cry babies with lots of other bugs and faulty sensors you currently believe you want to keep - get the law to support you.

With or without the emissions fix - if the NOx sensors are the originals they will play up, if the second generation they will play up, if the AdBblue is full of crystalising gunk it will play up - these have NOTHING to do with fitting the legal emission update - the Mk1 and Mk2 NOx sensors are just nasty budget flaky rubbish from the day they were manufactured (with quite a lot of growing evidence suggesting they were time related failures built in the design of the sensor to go alongside the special software controlling them). And if still on the car it would be far more sensible for you to know this today and force Merc to fit Mk3 ones alongside the the legal emissions update - just like the vast majority of countries that care about their citizen have mandated.

Its really very clear - To make the car work as well as they have come up with to date, there are 4 separate software updates that need applying, and two Mk3 sensors that need fitting to the car. Then it is ready to meet the law it was sold as meeting, and operating to the most economically serviceable set up you can have...

the coincidentally, 4th engine map update in its lifetime is mostly the emission bit and removal of two deliberate fake faults, (for most UK cars I would imagine few ever got the others, that afterall were almost as useless as each other). Then we have the others fixes related to Mk3 NOx sensors, which for the first ever time led to reliable operation of the AdBlue system and the car actually able to regen the DPF as designed. Meaning we end up with a car who's emission control system has a chance of operating and all the bug removal stuff the were told to make disappear

If keeping the car for more than a few months, the cost saved from DPF hell that's coming, far outweighs everything else. And if you use some nous they should be meeting the £50 purchase and £110 fitting costs of the two Mk3 NOx sensors it should have left the building with first time round - rather than you taking another day of work some time soon, and paying out a laughable £900

Good answers, although beyond my knowledge to know how accurate.

So following the theory that an MB map update (Mk 4 as your preference) would resolve the subversive nano bot scenario, would a remap (by GAD for instance) do the same. Assuming the remap from where ever is a new write rather than an adaptation of the original map.
This would ignore the poorly produced sensor accusation admitted. But I'm reading MB don't freely replace those after their update anyway.

To expand on the original map being with designed faults scenario. I assume MB would create generic maps. So the time faults and other would be near identical, but feasibly model specific.
So as I complain that the motor is now failing to do what ever, because, then many others at similar age / mileage would be complaining of the same. Taxi's would be the 1st to shout "don't buy Mercedes". I haven't seen such evidence.
What we do see is NOX sensors hating water hitting them, AdBlue tanks failing due to crystallisation (cited to be due to low mile usage), DP sensors are a regular t's up. In fact so many sensors on a diesel nowadays I just view that their age of superior reliability is history.

But I don't dismiss that MB have designed in revenue earners, a bit like the Ford OH cam failures at 40k miles. All they needed do was improve lubrication.