Engine won’t start - C220 CDI CLASSIC SE - 208.203, OM646.963 engine.

[umblecumbuz]

Has water got into the bores while the injectors were out?
Sounds like the starter is doing its best, but hitting big mechanical resistance.

As Wighty says, you need a long bar to begin turning the engine over on the crank - a short spanner is not good enough.
If it has got rust in the bores, turning over by hand several times might help free it up - especially if you can get a few squirts of oil into the bores as you do it. Of course, removing the injectors will significantly reduce the turning effort needed.

I think we're clutching at straws a bit here. Feel for you.

 

[Uncle Benz]

You say the car suffered a turbo failure that took it off the road. Maybe you could tell us a bit more about the nature of that failure. Did it runaway, running on its own oil?

 

[NBurns]

Has water got into the bores while the injectors were out?
Sounds like the starter is doing its best, but hitting big mechanical resistance.

As Wighty says, you need a long bar to begin turning the engine over on the crank - a short spanner is not good enough.
If it has got rust in the bores, turning over by hand several times might help free it up - especially if you can get a few squirts of oil into the bores as you do it. Of course, removing the injectors will significantly reduce the turning effort needed.

I think we're clutching at straws a bit here. Feel for you.

Quite possibly yes. That’s the reason for buying the cheap gazebo. To stop rain getting into the engine And allow me to continue working when it was raining.
Why will removing the injectors reduce the amount of effort required to crank the engine?
I feel you are correct re the starter motor though. And I believe now, due to the tightness of the engine, it may have burnt itself out.
I will check the mbwis to see how easy it is to remove and replace or refurbish.
By the way is mbwis still down?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NBurns]

You say the car suffered a turbo failure that took it off the road. Maybe you could tell us a bit more about the nature of that failure. Did it runaway, running on its own oil?

No. When that failed there was smoke everywhere. I fogged out the road in effect. Plus I had a severe loss of power. Ie there was no response from pushing my foot down on the gas pedal.
Once we established the turbocharger had failed, my girlfriend noticed the black gunge around the first injector. Thus there were two failures. The turbocharger and the seal plus its bolt, to the first injector.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Capra]

No. When that failed there was smoke everywhere. I fogged out the road in effect. Plus I had a severe loss of power. Ie there was no response from pushing my foot down on the gas pedal.
Once we established the turbocharger had failed, my girlfriend noticed the black gunge around the first injector. Thus there were two failures. The turbocharger and the seal plus its bolt, to the first injector.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe removing the injectors will reduce the engine compression making cranking easier?

 

[umblecumbuz]

Water in the bores?

Quite possibly yes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah ... that changes the picture somewhat. That's basically a new piece of evidence. The engine might have suffered internally as a result of water ingress, but don't write it off just yet.

A few years ago I had an outboard engine that became submerged in seawater (my boat sank in a storm). I drained the bores, poured oil into them, and got the engine turning over. Dried out all the ancilliaries, and after hours of churning in spurts, it fired up, and ran fine from then on.

If you remove the injectors (come on, you've done it once already!), coat the bores in oil, get the starter churning (which it probably will without the compression resistance - maybe with a little initial help on the crankshaft with a long spanner - then you might find that it will free itself up, and eventually start.

 

[NBurns]

Did you try and move the crankshaft with a long bar ? With car in neutral ?

I take it you mean a 'Breaker Bar'? I don't YET have one. Just looking at prices and lengths now.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Bit of scaffold tube over normal spanner will do the trick.

 

[NBurns]

When you talk about a long bar, do you mean a breaker bar?

 

[NBurns]

Bit of scaffold tube over normal spanner will do the trick.

Okay, yes, if there was one handy!!!!
Or a suitable diameter bit of brass plumbing pipe I guess?!! Again, if I had one.

 

[Wighty]

I take it you mean a 'Breaker Bar'? I don't YET have one. Just looking at prices and lengths now.

About £12 on eBay for a 2 foot long 1/2 inch drive breaker bar

 

[NBurns]

About £12 on eBay for a 2 foot long 1/2 inch drive breaker bar

Any link?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wighty]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24inch-6...042168?hash=item489b69b7f8:g:BxgAAOSwZkJURmHn

 

[NBurns]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24inch-6...042168?hash=item489b69b7f8:g:BxgAAOSwZkJURmHn

Thank you



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wighty]

Thank you



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are welcome buddy . I'm off to lie by a pool for a couple of weeks but I'll be keeping an eye on your progress .
I think you need to cut yourself a bit of slack , you have taken on a big job and from the sound of it you have nearly got there . There obviously is an issue somewhere but it should eventually come right , with some more work and a bit of luck . Keep on trucking buddy !
Don't let the though of me chilling by the swimming pool break your concentration

 

[NBurns]

Water in the bores?


Ah ... that changes the picture somewhat. That's basically a new piece of evidence. The engine might have suffered internally as a result of water ingress, but don't write it off just yet.

A few years ago I had an outboard engine that became submerged in seawater (my boat sank in a storm). I drained the bores, poured oil into them, and got the engine turning over. Dried out all the ancilliaries, and after hours of churning in spurts, it fired up, and ran fine from then on.

If you remove the injectors (come on, you've done it once already!), coat the bores in oil, get the starter churning (which it probably will without the compression resistance - maybe with a little initial help on the crankshaft with a long spanner - then you might find that it will free itself up, and eventually start.

Okay, but I thought the minute you removed the injectors you immediately need to get brand new bolts because they are stretch bolts and can only be used once only? So I will need 4 new bolts again, correct? Yes getting the injectors back out, no problem. It's the bolts I will need again.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Nah ... they haven't seen battle yet. Get the motor turning over first, then you'll be so delighted that you'll bung the injectors back in with the same bolts and it'll run fine from then on.

PS. 'Bung' is an old engineering term describing the precision placement of a fuel metering device by a time-served and qualified operative.

 

[alexanderfoti]

Okay, but I thought the minute you removed the injectors you immediately need to get brand new bolts because they are stretch bolts and can only be used once only? So I will need 4 new bolts again, correct? Yes getting the injectors back out, no problem. It's the bolts I will need again.

Id you have torqued them down, then yes you should replace them, much better than having one snap in the head!

Once you have the injectors out, get the engine turnining over, then you can get some new ones.

 

[umblecumbuz]

There above is the correct response to re-using stretch bolts, and it's good to see our Indies going exactly by the book.
However, I must confess that - no doubt along with many others - I have re-used stretch bolts after work on the fuel delivery system. In your case, with the bolts being new and never having seen action or having their torque re-checked after a period of engine running, I would be happy to re-use them.

First, as said, work on turning the engine over - which will be a labourious but worthwhile task - and then make further decisions.

 

[NBurns]

There above is the correct response to re-using stretch bolts, and it's good to see our Indies going exactly by the book.
However, I must confess that - no doubt along with many others - I have re-used stretch bolts after work on the fuel delivery system. In your case, with the bolts being new and never having seen action or having their torque re-checked after a period of engine running, I would be happy to re-use them.

First, as said, work on turning the engine over - which will be a labourious but worthwhile task - and then make further decisions.

I don't mind investing in new bolts. Although I have a utility bill to pay and I guess a breaker bar to invest in. Need todo some real work today from 12:30-20:30. Then have half a day working on a carnival and half the day I can do some more car work. Sunday and Monday will also be car work. Girlfriend's kids will ask for my attention but I can't this weekend. I had to amuse myself years ago as a kid, so they can suck it up as well. And no, their father isn't around. He died last year of cancer so my girlfriend is a widow now.