Engine won’t start - C220 CDI CLASSIC SE - 208.203, OM646.963 engine.

[NBurns]

Not sure what size breaker bar to get. Seen this one https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...05vjAhUGmhQKHTtbBbEQqA0IHygB&prds=scoring:tps, which looks really long. However it would give more torque than the shorter ones. Although £28 seems a lot. Maybe a 750mm would be a good compromise?
I feel my best Plan Of Action (POA) is to take the injectors back out (get more new bolts today). Get the breaker bar and crank the engine by hand. Once I get the engine to crank by hand then test/check the starter motor to see if it needs replacing. While checking the voltages at the same time.

 

[umblecumbuz]

... and put a few teaspoons of oil down the bores through the injector holes before you crank.

 

[LostKiwi]

Might be a silly question but why not remove glow plugs rather than injectors....?

 

[umblecumbuz]

Might be a silly question but why not remove glow plugs rather than injectors....?

Because the injectors have already been removed once, and as the engine has not been run since, they will come out without difficulty.
The glowplugs are often a real pain to remove with the possibility of breaking in situ. Why introduce an additional possible problem?

 

[Tony Dyson]

After being held to ransom by the EMS disabling the ignition start of a previous VW Passat, I had a chat with an AA patrolman, who I met on the third occasion of my attempts to recharge a car connected battery having instigated the EMS disablements with ‘Overvoltage’, Undervoltage’ and ‘No Volt’ errors. The discussion centred around the instrument he used to read and reset the faults on the car and my belief that something such as this should be made available to car owners, and to my surprise he informed me of the availability of such devices known collectively as ‘Scanners’. This was end of 2017.

I have led a privileged life since the mid 90’s when it comes to personal transport insomuch as they’ve always been either owned by someone else and their responsibility or have been under maintenance/warranty contracts and all I ever had to do is make a phone call to fix them if ever they broke down. With this in mind and my retirement looming close, where I would lose my last Co vehicle, I decided to research a scanner for my replacement car which is my current one bought in Aug last Year, I had decided it was going to be a Mercedes in July when I bought an iCarsoft MB V2.0 Scanner, I have yet to use it in anger but simply plugging it into the car and exploring the available Menu’s and Live Data feeds has taught me more about my car than the Haynes Manual and Owners Handbook combined! It is, without doubt the best £136 I have ever invested in Tools and Test Equipment and in my considered opinion an essential requirement for anyone seriously looking to repair/maintain their own cars. It also has to be said at this point that the altruistic and knowledgeable contributions by the forum members and supporters is priceless in such a selfish world in which we live.

I digress, in efforts to understand my car and how it works better, I have installed the scanner’s Data Cable between the OBD port and dash where I have also temporarily arranged a rig where I can suspend the scanner for recording purposes while I drive and have coincidentally been looking into the components of the ECM section where there are two sub sections on troubleshooting a dysfunctional starter motor, so just by way of an example of the information available on what used to be the simple procedure of starting a motor car please find herewith below the readouts of no less than 18 values that could potentially stop your car starting. While I understand it’s a little late in the day for your current dilemma and you’re presently a little strapped for cash, my advice would be to invest in a scanner as soon as you are able, at least with definitive and detailed information other forum members would have the best chance in providing the best advice they could! Good luck in your efforts and don’t give up now, writing off £1,000 would be the more difficult thing to do.
===================================================================
BENZ_EN_TEST_00007>C(204)>Diesel>204.002 - C 220 CDI>Manual>ECM - Engine Control Module(CDID2-CDID3 for Combustion Engine 'OM651'(N3-9))>View Data>Engine start - The starter does not turn:

Total Frames: 1, Supported Items: 7

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Frame 1/1:

Battery voltage ----- 14.71V

Ignition(circuit 15) ----- ON

Input ' Circuit 50' ----- NO

Clutch pedal OPERATED ----- Not Actuated

Output ' Circuit 50' ----- NO

The start enable signal was issued by control 'Electronic transmission control' ----- YES

Control module ' N3/9(CDI control module)' is activated. ----- YES

===================================================================
BENZ_EN_TEST_00007>C(204)>Diesel>204.002 - C 220 CDI>Manual>ECM - Engine Control Module(CDID2-CDID3 for Combustion Engine 'OM651'(N3-9))>View Data:

Total Frames: 1, Supported Items: 12
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Frame 1/1:

Battery voltage ----- 14.74V

B4/6 (Rail pressure sensor) ----- 331bar

Engine speed ----- 827.50rpm

Injection quantity ----- 10.37mg/Hub

Fuel level ----- 45L

Power consumption of component 'Y94(Quantity control valve)' ----- 814mA

Power consumption of component 'Y74(Pressure regulating valve)' ----- 786mA

Status of synchronization between crankshaft and camshaft ----- Synchronized

Cause of shutoff of the combustion engine ----- No Engine Stop

Low fuel pressure ----- 3.00bar

On/off ratio of component 'Variable fuel pump' ----- 43%

Fuel pump ----- Activated

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[NBurns]

Wow!!!! So I should be looking for an icarsoft v2.0 scanner. And I agree with you completely re money spent and time spent with my beloved Mercedes. Ie I have no intention of stopping now!!!
As for the forum. Totally and completely agree with that as well. Top quality advice from top quality people. People whom I have already started to respect and trust. I could not say that about other forums.

 

[Wighty]

Wow!!!! So I should be looking for an icarsoft v2.0 scanner. And I agree with you completely re money spent and time spent with my beloved Mercedes. Ie I have no intention of stopping now!!!
As for the forum. Totally and completely agree with that as well. Top quality advice from top quality people. People whom I have already started to respect and trust. I could not say that about other forums.

A lot of us have saved a lot of money from info on here buddy !

 

[NBurns]

After being held to ransom by the EMS disabling the ignition start of a previous VW Passat, I had a chat with an AA patrolman, who I met on the third occasion of my attempts to recharge a car connected battery having instigated the EMS disablements with ‘Overvoltage’, Undervoltage’ and ‘No Volt’ errors. The discussion centred around the instrument he used to read and reset the faults on the car and my belief that something such as this should be made available to car owners, and to my surprise he informed me of the availability of such devices known collectively as ‘Scanners’. This was end of 2017.

I have led a privileged life since the mid 90’s when it comes to personal transport insomuch as they’ve always been either owned by someone else and their responsibility or have been under maintenance/warranty contracts and all I ever had to do is make a phone call to fix them if ever they broke down. With this in mind and my retirement looming close, where I would lose my last Co vehicle, I decided to research a scanner for my replacement car which is my current one bought in Aug last Year, I had decided it was going to be a Mercedes in July when I bought an iCarsoft MB V2.0 Scanner, I have yet to use it in anger but simply plugging it into the car and exploring the available Menu’s and Live Data feeds has taught me more about my car than the Haynes Manual and Owners Handbook combined! It is, without doubt the best £136 I have ever invested in Tools and Test Equipment and in my considered opinion an essential requirement for anyone seriously looking to repair/maintain their own cars. It also has to be said at this point that the altruistic and knowledgeable contributions by the forum members and supporters is priceless in such a selfish world in which we live.

I digress, in efforts to understand my car and how it works better, I have installed the scanner’s Data Cable between the OBD port and dash where I have also temporarily arranged a rig where I can suspend the scanner for recording purposes while I drive and have coincidentally been looking into the components of the ECM section where there are two sub sections on troubleshooting a dysfunctional starter motor, so just by way of an example of the information available on what used to be the simple procedure of starting a motor car please find herewith below the readouts of no less than 18 values that could potentially stop your car starting. While I understand it’s a little late in the day for your current dilemma and you’re presently a little strapped for cash, my advice would be to invest in a scanner as soon as you are able, at least with definitive and detailed information other forum members would have the best chance in providing the best advice they could! Good luck in your efforts and don’t give up now, writing off £1,000 would be the more difficult thing to do.
===================================================================
BENZ_EN_TEST_00007>C(204)>Diesel>204.002 - C 220 CDI>Manual>ECM - Engine Control Module(CDID2-CDID3 for Combustion Engine 'OM651'(N3-9))>View Data>Engine start - The starter does not turn:

Total Frames: 1, Supported Items: 7

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Frame 1/1:

Battery voltage ----- 14.71V

Ignition(circuit 15) ----- ON

Input ' Circuit 50' ----- NO

Clutch pedal OPERATED ----- Not Actuated

Output ' Circuit 50' ----- NO

The start enable signal was issued by control 'Electronic transmission control' ----- YES

Control module ' N3/9(CDI control module)' is activated. ----- YES

===================================================================
BENZ_EN_TEST_00007>C(204)>Diesel>204.002 - C 220 CDI>Manual>ECM - Engine Control Module(CDID2-CDID3 for Combustion Engine 'OM651'(N3-9))>View Data:

Total Frames: 1, Supported Items: 12
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Frame 1/1:

Battery voltage ----- 14.74V

B4/6 (Rail pressure sensor) ----- 331bar

Engine speed ----- 827.50rpm

Injection quantity ----- 10.37mg/Hub

Fuel level ----- 45L

Power consumption of component 'Y94(Quantity control valve)' ----- 814mA

Power consumption of component 'Y74(Pressure regulating valve)' ----- 786mA

Status of synchronization between crankshaft and camshaft ----- Synchronized

Cause of shutoff of the combustion engine ----- No Engine Stop

Low fuel pressure ----- 3.00bar

On/off ratio of component 'Variable fuel pump' ----- 43%

Fuel pump ----- Activated

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Where did you buy your scanner from?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tony Dyson]

Where did you buy your scanner from?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I read a considerable amount of complaints from owners who complained of cloned and copied versions on sale on Ebay and Amazon so decided to buy directly from the UK official distributors and guarantee a genuine machine, it comes with telephone support and lifetime unlimited software downloads, here: https://ljmcardiagnostics.co.uk/products/icarsoft-mb-v2-0-mercedes-professional-diagnostic-scan-tool
Currently on sale at £136.00

 

[Tony Dyson]

Where did you buy your scanner from?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A thought has just crossed my mind, as I don't know your car I would just confirm the OBD port in your car is OBD II Compliant, it should be moulded into the lid covering the D type socket at the side of the bonnet release catch, better to check first!

 

[LostKiwi]

2005 car will definitely be compliant.

 

[NBurns]

My girlfriend has been advised that I should take out the injectors and plugs in order to crank it by hand and if there is the slightest bit of water in there, to vacuum it out or the engine will go boom!!! However we are just a tad sceptical about this advice so does this sound right to you people?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Blobcat]

You could take out the plugs but they don’t generally fit them to diesels...

 

[NBurns]

You could take out the plugs but they don’t generally fit them to diesels...

Glow plugs not spark plugs!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tony Dyson]

For what it's worth and I'm sure there will be more experienced members contributing very soon, if I had an engine that potentially contained anything other than fresh air, fuel or exhaust gasses in the combustion chambers and/or cylinders, I would want to take the head off and at least have a looksee, unless you have an endoscope to pass through the injector or glow plug apertures? just attempting to squeeze whatever is in there, out by lifting the pistons will only remove the fluid contents of the piston lift volume, the combustion chamber contents will be left in there to be burnt upon the next successful engine start. 20 Years ago all you had were silencers in the way between the exhaust manifold and final discharge but today you have so much more sensitive kit that you don't know how will be affected by your next successful engine start. you've got so far it would be a crying shame to 'spoil the ship for a hap'eth of tar', whatever has got into the cylinders has no doubt filtered past the cylinders and contaminated the oil so I believe an engine oil change would also be beneficial.

 

[NBurns]

You could take out the plugs but they don’t generally fit them to diesels...

Glow plugs not spark plugs!!!

 

[NBurns]

For what it's worth and I'm sure there will be more experienced members contributing very soon, if I had an engine that potentially contained anything other than fresh air, fuel or exhaust gasses in the combustion chambers and/or cylinders, I would want to take the head off and at least have a looksee, unless you have an endoscope to pass through the injector or glow plug apertures? just attempting to squeeze whatever is in there, out by lifting the pistons will only remove the fluid contents of the piston lift volume, the combustion chamber contents will be left in there to be burnt upon the next successful engine start. 20 Years ago all you had were silencers in the way between the exhaust manifold and final discharge but today you have so much more sensitive kit that you don't know how will be affected by your next successful engine start. you've got so far it would be a crying shame to 'spoil the ship for a hap'eth of tar', whatever has got into the cylinders has no doubt filtered past the cylinders and contaminated the oil so I believe an engine oil change would also be beneficial.

Arrgghhh!!!!!! The trouble and dilemma I am having is that for every day this car is off the road I am losing money. Thus the frustration I am experiencing. It's been six weeks so far. What do you suggest I do and how? Yes I am a qualified communications engineer but as you can tell not an experienced mechanic,...Yet!!! :-D ;-)

 

[NBurns]

For what it's worth and I'm sure there will be more experienced members contributing very soon, if I had an engine that potentially contained anything other than fresh air, fuel or exhaust gasses in the combustion chambers and/or cylinders, I would want to take the head off and at least have a looksee, unless you have an endoscope to pass through the injector or glow plug apertures? just attempting to squeeze whatever is in there, out by lifting the pistons will only remove the fluid contents of the piston lift volume, the combustion chamber contents will be left in there to be burnt upon the next successful engine start. 20 Years ago all you had were silencers in the way between the exhaust manifold and final discharge but today you have so much more sensitive kit that you don't know how will be affected by your next successful engine start. you've got so far it would be a crying shame to 'spoil the ship for a hap'eth of tar', whatever has got into the cylinders has no doubt filtered past the cylinders and contaminated the oil so I believe an engine oil change would also be beneficial.

Oh!!, also, are you suggesting I simply look at the cylinder heads or down further? And would removing the cylinder head cover down to the first gasket be enough to check this?

 

[LostKiwi]

At this stage there is no need to remove heads or dive deeper into the engine.

You only need to remove either injectors or glow plugs - not both. They both terminate in the combustion chamber which is what we are looking to vent. The purpose of doing this is to prevent any liquids that may or may not be in the cylinders from forming an hydraulic lock.
Turn over by hand (using breaker bar if necessary - you can often turn them over by hand on the crank pulley or by using the ratchet out of you socket set.
As you turn it over any liquid in the cylinders will be pushed out. As it's ejected mop with a cloth (if there is any).
Once the engine has rotated several times remove the tool you're using and spin it over on the starter motor. This should forcibly eject anything else remaining in the cylinders.
Refit injectors and try starting it.

If the engine won't turn over by hand with injectors removed there's a deeper problem.

ONLY TURN THE ENGINE IN THE NORMAL DIRECTION. DO NOT TURN IT BACKWARDS!

To determine the correct direction of rotation look at the fan attached to the serpentine belt (assuming you have one). The fan draws air into the engine bay.

ETA - with injectors removed the engine should not be difficult to turn over.

 

[Tony Dyson]

At this stage there is no need to remove heads or dive deeper into the engine.

You only need to remove either injectors or glow plugs - not both. They both terminate in the combustion chamber which is what we are looking to vent. The purpose of doing this is to prevent any liquids that may or may not be in the cylinders from forming an hydraulic lock.
Turn over by hand (using breaker bar if necessary - you can often turn them over by hand on the crank pulley or by using the ratchet out of you socket set.
As you turn it over any liquid in the cylinders will be pushed out. As it's ejected mop with a cloth (if there is any).
Once the engine has rotated several times remove the tool you're using and spin it over on the starter motor. This should forcibly eject anything else remaining in the cylinders.
Refit injectors and try starting it.

If the engine won't turn over by hand with injectors removed there's a deeper problem.

ONLY TURN THE ENGINE IN THE NORMAL DIRECTION. DO NOT TURN IT BACKWARDS!

To determine the correct direction of rotation look at the fan attached to the serpentine belt (assuming you have one). The fan draws air into the engine bay.

And there speaks the calming voice of experience