Exhaust system for W124 230CE

[White230CE]

Hi all,

Took my 230CE for its first long drive in a while and when I rolled up at destination, the back box fell off! Good job it wasn't on the M25.

Anyway, pulled into the nearest KwikFit and he said that the whole system needs replacing (previous owner did some DIY joins which I knew about). He couldn't just fit a new back box because where it normally joins had been welded, and where it had broken off was too rusty and at a bend where positioning a new back box would be difficult.

He quoted £418 which I considered to be too much, so I need some advice about alternatives.

Option 1: Just buy a new back box and take it to my welder to weld?

Option 2: See what I can take from my donor car, whose exhaust seems quite new but it is a cat version, whereas this one is non-cat. Pics attached showing difference. The middle section, 175-293, is missing from my cannibal and a straight pipe has been improvised to bridge that section. The pipe is slotted, so it's blowing a bit.

Option 3: Buy a complete system from Eurocarparts (no details available online) or one of these two (any good?):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Exhaust-silen...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1683|293:2|294:50

or

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EXHAUST-SYSTE...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1683|293:1|294:50

How easy would it be as a DIY job? - I don't have a ramp, but would consider buying a trolley jack and axle stand set from Halfords for £50 if the job is easy to do. Also, a mechanically competent friend is visiting soon, so he could help me.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Radar100]

Hi, just to give you a 'ball park' figure I had the same problem last friday when my back box fell off in north devon and had to drive 125 miles back to Gloucester with half an exhaust. Local independant tyre and exhaust company managed to find and fit both boxes on saturday morning for £215. This is on a later W124 E200 (95) saloon and they had lots of fun trying to seperate the old middle box from the cat but looking at your pictures I would say that the join is different on your car and should at most only require cutting the bolts and fitting new bolts and gasket. Based on your pictures I would buy the parts and fit it myself as apart from one joint it is all just rubbers and one new join between boxes.

Hope this ramble helps.

Radar100

 

[White230CE]

Thanks very much Radar. Your advice confirms what I've just found:

After my post, and while waiting for advice, I decided to crawl under and take a look.

Kwik Fit were clearly trying it on. C***s. I've unclamped and removed the broken back box pipe where it joins onto the middle section. There is no 'weld'! So as a minimum, I can buy another back box from say GSF, who are round the corner from me, and fit it on. I've kept the old rubber slings and clamp, but I may splash out on some new ones! :lol:

However, I'm also now going to take a look at the middle section. Its join to the front section is bridged with a length of pipe, and it is this joint which is blowing a bit. I think it's only because the original section of pipe on the middle box was cut short (corrosion perhaps), hence a bridging pipe to reach the front section. I'm sure if I buy a new middle section, its pipe will be long enough, because it's the same middle section on my donor car, and that looks like it has a longer pipe.

Main difficulty is getting under the car. There is a section of my drive which, thanks to the neighbour's leylandii, has heaved up, giving me a natural ramp, which has proved invaluable on many occasions, including this. I won't be complaining to the neighbour just yet!

Will report back, but thanks again Radar.

 

[turbopete]

its only the downpipe thats different. rest of the system is identical. in my experience, its very rare to need to replace the downpipe anyhow so most of the donor car's exhaust will fit no problem! besides, the diagram you put up in your post show that the cat equipped downpipe is not available from that manufacturer! looking at the pics, id say the main difference in shape in the front pipes is the angle it joins to the manifold. 1 looks steeper than the other. that could just be the pics though. however if that was the case, using the correct manifold would sort that!

 

[White230CE]

Thanks Turbopete.

Propped up one rear wheel of the donor car on three pieces of paving slab to get under, and I've now removed the back and middle section from the donor car. It wasn't entirely by choice; the back box was so firmly fixed to the middle section that it was easier to take the back and middle off as one piece. Overall in good condition.

The trick now is to fit it on to the cannibal. Will line up underneath the car tomorrow and check lengths, etc. One immediate problem I foresee is that the cannibal lacks a flange at the end of its pipe, to match and mate with the flange at the end of the middle section I've just taken off. That flange was probably removed as part of the 'bridging' work. Will take a closer look tomorrow, to see if I can take the flange from the donor and put it on.

Also, is it 'exhaust paste' I need to smear the pipes with, when I push one into the other?

 

[Number_Cruncher]

While I know this isn't directly relevant, but, I've fitted a new centre pipe and tailpipe to my E300D this afternoon.

I replaced the rusting aftermarket pipes with genuine parts, and I'm very happy with the reduction in noise and vibration, and I was also pleased with how the parts fitted snugly together without needing any exhaust paste to form a decent seal.

Apart from the Witter towbar bracket being completely in the way, it was a very staightforward job.

 

[wireman]

Do fit the new mountings it is dead easy, makes a big difference in the cars soothness and cheap into the bargain, the awkward nuts&bolts are on the sub frame and the new rear rubber ring is much easier to fit than it looks.

If you are working with just the rear left in the air it will be difficult to tighten the centre joint up sufficiently (at least it was for me) so keep an ear open for it leaking and get it on a lift or pit to sort it out.

 

[White230CE]

Thanks guys. Here's an update.

I ordered a new front pipe from carspares.co.uk, who are in Cheshunt, not far from me. Picked it up yesterday. Cost £43.99.

I went round some of the chop shops in Luton to see what it would cost for them to fit the exhaust for me. Quotes ranged from £45 + VAT to 'have to see if bolts corroded/distorted by heat, rust, etc'.

Decided to do it myself, so while at carspares.co.uk, bought a little hydraulic jack and axle stands. First time ever using these, so proceeded cautiously. After some checking, decided to use jack on front sub-frame, and rested sub-frame on axle stands. Chocked back wheels.

Had sprayed WD-40 on manifold bolts earlier that morning. I unbolted the first flange from above, leaning into engine bay. Slow but steady progress; bolts and nuts not seized or rounded, luckily. Lost a nut (where?!) but otherwise successful. Unbolted the other flange from below, using two extension pieces and a ratchet. I was amazed that through all the components jutting inwards and apparently blocking access to the bolt heads, it is possible to find one optimum angle of entry where the extension just goes straight to the bolt head without obstruction, and at the right angle to slot on. Must be a deliberate design. Bolts not seized or rounded either, and the manifold flange had nuts that had been forged as part of it, so none to lose!

Upon unbolting both flanges, the front pipe separated easily from the manifold, so that just left the retaining bracket at the bottom to deal with. The nuts securing the wire 'croquet hoop' that inserts into the main bracket had corroded, so I hacksawed the hoop off. The main bracket itself unbolted easily. With that removed, the front pipe/middle pipe assembly was left hanging only by the rubber sling securing the middle box. I manoeuvred my new jack under the middle box, lifted it up to take the tension off the rubber sling, and unhooked if off the box without needing to detach the sling from the car. After that, the whole assembly was easy to slide out from under the car.

So, it's all ready this morning to install the front pipe, then the middle pipe/rear pipe assembly (not separated because it's tightly joined), so will crack on and report back. Just hope the rain holds off! Would have preferred to use all new mounting bits, but carspares, gsf, etc had none and I couldn't get any in time. As the existing ones are actually in vgc, will use for now, then substitute when I get some new ones.

 

[teddycatkin]

Good luck with it -its fine uphere this morning?

 

[White230CE]

Thanks Teddy. Sun's shining here too, but my neighbours may not take kindly to me banging this early on a Sunday morning...

 

[teddycatkin]

Quick round of golf first then --I tee off at 8 !--should be back for 12 when everyone else round here surfaces!

 

[White230CE]

Hope your game was as exciting as the Watson/Cink play-off, Teddy.

Fitting my exhaust was more 15 rounds than 18 holes, and left me exhausted but ultimately successful.

The main difficulty was the limited clearance afforded by having the car on two axle stands.

Single-handedly lining up the front pipe onto the exhaust manifold from below was a challenge, ultimately achieved by jamming my right elbow against the ground and using that forearm as a pillar to hold the horizontal section against the chassis, while using my left hand to manoeuvre the pipe openings to fit onto the manifold. Once the right position was achieved, I then used my left hand to hold a double extension to insert the bolt up into the flange. Tightening the bolt required a combination of mouth and left hand that perhaps owed more to Hamburg's Reeperbahn than Stuttgart's factory! Once one bolt was in, doing the rest was easier, but by no means easy.

Slinging the middle/end sections was relatively easy. I raised one end with my hydraulic jack, propped it up with a box, then did the same at the other end, then slipped the rubbers on.

Joining the front to the mid-section proved the greatest challenge. I had to pull the mid-section forward, stretching the rubbers, to bridge a 6-inch gap while the fixing bolts were less than 6 inches long. Finally did it by using a very long bolt and nut to span the gap, then tightening to bring the two ends together.

End result: what a difference! I had thought the 2.3 engine was coarse and sluggish below 40mph, but with the new exhaust, it is so different. I now realise it was the old bodged exhaust that was the problem, not the engine.

I have some questions please:

I spent such a long time adjusting the fit onto the exhaust manifold that the Firegum I smeared on the ends had dried by the time the two ends were bolted. Is that OK? As I understand it, it is the heat that sets it, so hopefully OK?

I couldn't re-use the manifold nuts and bolts, so had to dash to Halfords and get some nuts and bolts off the shelf rather than those from a proper mounting kit. Is that OK? I ask because I don't know if the bolts are supposed to be special heat-resistant ones or are just standard types.

The front pipe does not rest exactly on the contour of its supporting bracket. It is offset. I attribute this to the fact that the front pipe is not genuine Mercedes (it's Euroflo) so it has a margin of error. Would that be right, or does the offset indicate that I have fitted something incorrectly?

Is there any way to check if the joins have been properly sealed and no fumes are escaping - either DIY, or what a garage would do?

Thanks to all for any comments/advice.

 

[White230CE]

I have some questions please:

I spent such a long time adjusting the fit onto the exhaust manifold that the Firegum I smeared on the ends had dried by the time the two ends were bolted. Is that OK? As I understand it, it is the heat that sets it, so hopefully OK?

I couldn't re-use the manifold nuts and bolts, so had to dash to Halfords and get some nuts and bolts off the shelf rather than those from a proper mounting kit. Is that OK? I ask because I don't know if the bolts are supposed to be special heat-resistant ones or are just standard types.

The front pipe does not rest exactly on the contour of its supporting bracket. It is offset. I attribute this to the fact that the front pipe is not genuine Mercedes (it's Euroflo) so it has a margin of error. Would that be right, or does the offset indicate that I have fitted something incorrectly?

Is there any way to check if the joins have been properly sealed and no fumes are escaping - either DIY, or what a garage would do?

Thanks to all for any comments/advice.

Managed to find some answers to the questions - see below. Would still welcome input if anyone can contribute.

Firegum: Holts, the manufacturer, confirm that if the gum was still like 'pastry dough' (my description), and was not so dry that it was crumbling and falling away, it should still be ok.

Bolts: I should have used the correct bolts, and smeared them with copper slip before installing. I've ordered the bolts from MB and will undertake the replacement at the weekend.

Leak detection: 'Listen and smell' seems to be quite common advice. Also holding a strip of paper near any joints to see if the paper moves.

Mis-alignment with bracket: ???

 

[turbopete]

another common method of checking for exhaust leaks used bu many mechanics i know is to try to block off the end of the exhaust momentarily with your hand. you will hear any leaks hissing as the gas escapes and if no leaks it will blow your hand away from the end of the exhaust!

 

[White230CE]

Have had the exhaust on now for over a week and it seems fine, touch wood. Did change the nuts and bolts to the correct spec.

Had to leave the supporting bracket off in the end, cos the exhaust not sitting properly was causing a high spot. Exhaust seems secure enough without it.

Only one minor problem remains, caused again by the Euroflo exhaust not being the exact MB shape. On full steering lock to the right, when I engage reverse gear, the steering arm touches the exhaust and there is a juddering vibration. I can think of two solutions:

1. Don't engage full lock in such circumstances.

2. Mark where the contact point is, and carefully dent the exhaust at that point.

Comments on the above, or further suggestions, would be very welcome, please.

Thanks