Final leg of the on going judder issue.

[Jimbo1959]

For Sale !

Mercedes E350CDi Sports Coupé 2009 C207.

This car has had almost the complete braking system replaced, Pads, Discs, Calipers, Flexibrake hoses all on the front. Pads, Discs and a complete strip down and reset of the handbrake shoes on the rear. Numerous trips to the garage for wheel alignment and balance, the wheel bearings on both sides at the front have been replaced. The steering and suspension have been checked more often than I'e had hot dinners in the last two years.

AND I STILL CAN'T GET THE FECKIN' THING TO STOP WITHOUT JUDDERING!!

I'VE SPENT MORE THAN WAS TRUELY SENSIBLE ON IT AND NOW I'VE HAD ENOUGH. IT HAS TO GO!!!!!!!
NEVER, HAS ONE CAR, MADE ONE MAN SO F-CKIN' MISERABLE.

To think I traded in a perfectly good warm hatch for this pile of excrement.

The private registration will be removed.

I will throw in all the unnecessary parts that haven't cured the problem, a rear lip spoiler, numerous t-shirts, and caps which professed my adoration for the marque, I'd only be lying if I kept them.

Have a nice day where ever you are, it certainly can't get any fu-kin' worse than mine.

 

[Jimbo1959]

After my almost hysterical rant earlier today and now having calmed down somewhat, I thought I should come back on and apologise for my rather foul mouthed rant.

I can only claim momentary madness chaps and chapesses, the work that I have carried out on my car over the last two days did not cure the problem and it rather pushed me over the edge.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, that was unintentional, I have had nothing but good experiences on this forum, in fact I can honestly say it is the best one I have ever been a memeber of.

Everyone is kind, helpful and the level of camaraderie is marvelous.

So, once again, I'm sorry for my foul outburst, the only part of it I wouldn't change is wishing you all a nice day.

Regards, Jimbo.

 

[A.J.]

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I wish I could get my iPhone and computer to sync then I could upload some of the pictures, so, I'll just have to explain instead.

I was all set to do the job outside based on the assumption that today would be similar to yesterday, as in, dry with occasional showers, all be it rather cold. When I woke up this morning it was absolutely hissing down, there was actually a small pond outside of my garage around 10ft square. This started the do a job, to do a job, scenario that was to become the theme for my day.

I couldn't work in my driveway, with little to no cover I don't want to catch pneumonia, so, I got my brush out and swept the water away from the blocked drain and down the side of my garage.

When I opened the garage, I discover that no. 2 son has turned it into a gym. I tidied up and made some room which enabled me to get the front of the car in, well at least to about half way along the door. This gave me around 3ft of working space which was out of the rain, but hey, beggars can't be choosers.

This is where the pictures would have given you a better idea of the conditions I was dealing with.
I had barely enough room to kneel down facing the car wheel with my feet touching the garage wall. Anyhoo, I then had to crawl under the front of the car to get my trolley jack placed under the suspension arm pivot bush which would let me check the bearing travel/adjustment.

Bluddy hell is the only thing that comes to mind, I reckon that there was approx, 5-6mm of movement when the wheel was wiggled at the outer edge. Due to the confined space I had to face the trolley jack out the front of the car, there just wasn't the space at the side for it to fit.

This meant that until I had the car almost off the ground it was moving up less that one half inch at each stroke of the jack lever and the strokes were lucky if they were four inches each, this was accompanied by me being in a very awkward position of lying on my stomach and half twisted towards the jack lever trying to jack it up by these miniscule amounts at each stroke.

I then had the issue of getting in the way of myself when using my samson bar to release the caliper mounting, I just didn't have the room to do it easily. I finally managed that with a little luck and a universal joint. From the outside the discs actually looked in good condition but the inner was a mess. The mechanic who had fitted them in October had not coated with any grease of any discription, consequently there was a LOT of rust in there. I had to clean the hub rotor and the discs, before removing the bearing race shells. It was while attempting this that I had a moment with the hammer and skelped the back of my hand when it skite-ed, ouch!! mucho swearing and general abuse ensued.

It was then that I noticed that the pond had re-made itself and was trying its best to climb into the garage. Brush collected and water removed I was again about to start work again when I accidentally stood on the wire for my travelling light which caused to to dislodge and blow the bulb, when I went into the house to get another, I found that typically, that had been my last bulb. More swearing, a lot of swearing!

Swmbo had reappeared home by this time and condesended to go back out and get me a new pack of bulbs,which let me continue with the prep work prior to refitting.

It then transpired that if I could drop it, loose it, miss-place it, whatever, I could and did, if it could go wrong in any way it did. I have not been so wound up in a long time, I brushed past the wheel I had taken off and it fell over and hit the wing Jeez I thought I was going to have a heart attack Fortunately I got away with it

Ok, so enough of boring you to death with my little problems, I eventually managed to get it rebuilt, I ache all over and couldn't feel my feet when I got in, my manicure was a joke even after washing my hands in bleach they are still filthy.

Swmbo is decidedly unhappy with me, due I think, to the fact that I have turned into Victor Meldrew.

My son came home and has now fixed my phone/computer interface so pics to follow.
Pond, inner disc and hub rotor.

I am just so glad that I am not any sort of handy man.

 

[bembo449]

this is one of those times where id like to actually have a look at the car myself and experience the issue first hand , I don't blame you for being angry jimbo , cars can be very love/hate at times

 

[Jimbo1959]

this is one of those times where id like to actually have a look at the car myself and experience the issue first hand , I don't blame you for being angry jimbo , cars can be very love/hate at times

I’d be delighted to let you if it resulted in the problem being cured.
I’ve spent so much time and money on trying to get a correct diagnosis and cure that it makes me sick.
I just can’t take it any longer. I’ve never been..... defeated like this before, this car has just become a money pit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Janchee]

After my almost hysterical rant earlier today and now having calmed down somewhat, I thought I should come back on and apologise for my rather foul mouthed rant.

I can only claim momentary madness chaps and chapesses, the work that I have carried out on my car over the last two days did not cure the problem and it rather pushed me over the edge.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, that was unintentional, I have had nothing but good experiences on this forum, in fact I can honestly say it is the best one I have ever been a memeber of.

Everyone is kind, helpful and the level of camaraderie is marvelous.

So, once again, I'm sorry for my foul outburst, the only part of it I wouldn't change is wishing you all a nice day.

Regards, Jimbo.

Hey Jimbo - so sorry to hear that the bearings have not cured the problem. There are so many components making up the suspension, brakes and driveshaft so it’s a hard battle to take on. At least you know these events are still making you feel alive

It’s a shame we don’t have a forum ran workshop where we can all meet together to help potentially diagnose the problem Mind you - you would expect the garage to pick it up for the amount of times yours has been.

Did the judder improve at all or was it exactly the same?

This is where those unicorn mechanics are needed imo. When I took my car in, I asked them for photos / items they tested to be written down so we can be sure it was done and properly. I didn’t get any of that

All I got was them saying errr yeah that’s good, this is alright. Ok how did you test it and in what order? I would be sacked immediately in my engineering role if i did not supply a methodology during investigations. Even if they charged a little bit more money - I’d pay!! Now I’m going to another mechanic and I can’t even confidently tell them what has been checked and how it’s been checked. Probably going to have to pay even more for them to check it all again!

This is where I’m still trying to find a mechanic locally with that extended mindset. Currently hard to find one that doesn’t just look at a task on the board - get the job done and then say yeah can’t find it - next.

 

[KennyN]

Is the "wobble" now present all the time ?

Many moons ago I had trouble pin pointing a braking vibration issue I had on one of my cars and what I did was to clamp the brake flexi hoses one at a time and take the car for a gentle (safe) drive. Whatever "clamped" corner stopped the vibration was where I started my investigation , at least this way you quickly eliminate 75% of the cause of the problem .

With the greatest of respect the lengthy fault finding process seems a bit gung-ho and I can fully understand your frustrations and knee jerk reactions regarding wanting to off load the vehicle.

BUT , there will be one thing causing your problem so once repaired / replaced the car will drive like it should.

It is (will be) a nice car so sometimes it is better with the devil you know.

Most days I go to the gym (Pro Life) next to your work if you want to meet me and give me one of your many sets of discs I will take them into work on Wednesday night , make a perfectly trued boss in the lathe , mount the discs , check for runout with a dial test indicator and skim them if they are out. This way you can fit them safe in the knowledge they are spot on.

Or if you are passing in your van we live in Ralston just along from Barshaw Park.

K

 

[Wighty]

You say complete braking system on the front , and pads and discs on the rear ? Have the rear calipers been overhauled ?

 

[daibevan]

After my almost hysterical rant earlier today and now having calmed down somewhat, I thought I should come back on and apologise for my rather foul mouthed rant.

I can only claim momentary madness chaps and chapesses, the work that I have carried out on my car over the last two days did not cure the problem and it rather pushed me over the edge.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, that was unintentional, I have had nothing but good experiences on this forum, in fact I can honestly say it is the best one I have ever been a memeber of.

Everyone is kind, helpful and the level of camaraderie is marvelous.

So, once again, I'm sorry for my foul outburst, the only part of it I wouldn't change is wishing you all a nice day.

Regards, Jimbo.

Don't sweat it Jimbo. We have all had rants like this. My typing is so slow I'd never get it down before I'd cooled off a bit. Hope you can still get to the bottom of it.

 

[bembo449]

I’d be delighted to let you if it resulted in the problem being cured.
I’ve spent so much time and money on trying to get a correct diagnosis and cure that it makes me sick.
I just can’t take it any longer. I’ve never been..... defeated like this before, this car has just become a money pit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

if only you lived closer to me pal , id happily have a butchers

 

[Jimbo1959]

Is the "wobble" now present all the time ?

Many moons ago I had trouble pin pointing a braking vibration issue I had on one of my cars and what I did was to clamp the brake flexi hoses one at a time and take the car for a gentle (safe) drive. Whatever "clamped" corner stopped the vibration was where I started my investigation , at least this way you quickly eliminate 75% of the cause of the problem .

With the greatest of respect the lengthy fault finding process seems a bit gung-ho and I can fully understand your frustrations and knee jerk reactions regarding wanting to off load the vehicle.

BUT , there will be one thing causing your problem so once repaired / replaced the car will drive like it should.

It is (will be) a nice car so sometimes it is better with the devil you know.

Most days I go to the gym (Pro Life) next to your work if you want to meet me and give me one of your many sets of discs I will take them into work on Wednesday night , make a perfectly trued boss in the lathe , mount the discs , check for runout with a dial test indicator and skim them if they are out. This way you can fit them safe in the knowledge they are spot on.

Or if you are passing in your van we live in Ralston just along from Barshaw Park.

K

The wobble has not changed in the slightest as far as I can determine sir. It is intermittant and only appears under particular circumstances.

Kenny, thank you very much for your very kind offer, I will take you up on that, I will private message you so that we can get the details sorted out.

I will also carry out your suggestion regarding clamping each flexihose to try and eliminate and diagnose where the problem is and where the investigation should concentrate.

As an aside , I was discussing the problem with one of my customers today and he has told me to bring the car in on a Saturday and he will check it out on the rolling road to see if the issue can be pin pointed. This is where the "lengthy fault finding process" comes in, sadly I can't get it to him for a fortnight due to my work commitments. B*gger!!

Oh well, if I can co-ordinate this properly, then hopefully a correct diagnosis will result and I can get the damned thing fixed at last.

 

[Wighty]

Is the "wobble" now present all the time ?

Many moons ago I had trouble pin pointing a braking vibration issue I had on one of my cars and what I did was to clamp the brake flexi hoses one at a time and take the car for a gentle (safe) drive. Whatever "clamped" corner stopped the vibration was where I started my investigation , at least this way you quickly eliminate 75% of the cause of the problem .

With the greatest of respect the lengthy fault finding process seems a bit gung-ho and I can fully understand your frustrations and knee jerk reactions regarding wanting to off load the vehicle.

BUT , there will be one thing causing your problem so once repaired / replaced the car will drive like it should.

It is (will be) a nice car so sometimes it is better with the devil you know.

Most days I go to the gym (Pro Life) next to your work if you want to meet me and give me one of your many sets of discs I will take them into work on Wednesday night , make a perfectly trued boss in the lathe , mount the discs , check for runout with a dial test indicator and skim them if they are out. This way you can fit them safe in the knowledge they are spot on.

Or if you are passing in your van we live in Ralston just along from Barshaw Park.

K

That is a damn decent offer buddy !

 

[Jimbo1959]

You say complete braking system on the front , and pads and discs on the rear ? Have the rear calipers been overhauled ?

They didn't need overhauled Wighty, when the car was stripped to replace the rear discs and pads, the calipers were free, you could press the pistons back in easily with a flat lever, no sticky feeling at all, the pistons were also checked using the footbrake, complete freedom of movement was evident. My mechanic then stripped, greased, where appropriate, and checked the adjusters on the handbrake shoes before reassembling and setting everything up as optimally as possible.

 

[Jimbo1959]

This is where those unicorn mechanics are needed imo. When I took my car in, I asked them for photos / items they tested to be written down so we can be sure it was done and properly. I didn’t get any of that.

All I got was them saying errr yeah that’s good, this is alright. Ok how did you test it and in what order? I would be sacked immediately in my engineering role if i did not supply a methodology during investigations. Even if they charged a little bit more money - I’d pay!! Now I’m going to another mechanic and I can’t even confidently tell them what has been checked and how it’s been checked. Probably going to have to pay even more for them to check it all again!

This is where I’m still trying to find a mechanic locally with that extended mindset. Currently hard to find one that doesn’t just look at a task on the board - get the job done and then say yeah can’t find it - next.

I completely agree Jan, it's like they're all playing God, as in, they are right and have the last word, you are just the driver who can't even provide them sufficient or correct information to assist with their "proclaimation" of what the problem is. Jeez, and how often have we wound up out of pocket through fitting something completely unnecessarily due to the "Hmm... we'll fit this and see if it helps/solves the problem?"

If they were methodical and could explain their technique and order of investigation better it would be so much more helpful.

I am methodical in how I do things mainly because my memory is rubbish and, I would hate to forget something simple, so, I go through everything systematically as much as humanly possible, to discount whatever, before moving on to the next possibility.

Those wonderful words, "If only".

 

[KennyN]

Kenny, thank you very much for your very kind offer, I will take you up on that, I will private message you so that we can get the details sorted out.

No problem Jim , I am on nights Wed / Thurs / Friday this week so whenever / wherever suits you.

That is a damn decent offer buddy !

If it rules out something then it will be worth a bit of lathe time , especially on nights as we can be quite quiet sometimes.

K

 

[Jimbo1959]

I sent a private conversation to you Kenny with some suggestions so, whatever suits you sir.

I can't do anything on Wednesday either, it's Swmbo's birthday and we are going out for a family meal.

 

[KennyN]

I sent a private conversation to you Kenny with some suggestions so, whatever suits you sir.

I can't do anything on Wednesday either, it's Swmbo's birthday and we are going out for a family meal.

Replied.

K

 

[Jimbo1959]

As per Wighty'd suggestion I now have some pics of my old set of discs that KennyN very kindly checked out to make sure they were true, on the lathe.

Aparently the rears were as near as damn it perfect and only got a light skim to clean them up, however, the fronts were a different story, sadly I didn't take any before, pictures but, the worst disc was a good 5" thou out. Kenny sent me a video of when he was checking it out on the dial guage for run out. I'll try and load it too.



They have all cleaned up fairly well. Kenny noticed that the vent holes were blocked with rust and pad material so cleaned them out to, he also suggested that this could be the cause of the over heating and resultant warping of the discs, I must admit that it sounds very plausible.

Next Saturday a friend who has a rolling road is going to run the car with the current discs on to see if we can identify which side, if indeed it is only one side, is the major contributor to the judder.

When I was changing the wheel bearings last week I noticed that the vent holes were blocked on that set too. Like Kenny I also cleaned them out, before I refitted them to the car.

So, it will give us more to investigate next Saturday. The car hasn't moved much since I refitted the discs so I'm wondering if the vent holes will have filled up with debris from the pads and rust build up from the discs when I get it to the rolling road. Time will tell I suppose, the thing that's bothering me is why are the vent holes filling up, I always thought that they would be almost self cleaning. Just lack of use perhaps?

When I had the discs off I took some pictures of the hub axle and tbh it looks fine to me.



There were a couple of fine marks and some little rust spots but they all cleaned up with minimum effort from me before regreasing and remounting of the discs.



The old bearings certainly looked contaminated and a little dirty but there were again no marks or indents that I could see on the bearing races.
Any hoo, new bearings fitted in the rotor prior to fitting on the hub. Rotor face spotless.


Hopefully the rolling road test will help indentify where the issue is.

 

[John Laidlaw]

Don’t sweat it Jim, we all lose it from time to time..
been going over the whole thread again to see if I can make more sense of it but no... you did the only other last resort I see and changed tyres

 

[Jimbo1959]

Don’t sweat it Jim, we all lose it from time to time..
been going over the whole thread again to see if I can make more sense of it but no... you did the only other last resort I see and changed tyres

I might just change the front two only to see if there is any difference now that the bearings have been done John, plus I can also relube the caliper pins and bushes to make sure that they are not sticking. Funnily enough, I remember seeing some new pins in one of the old boxes, possibly they put the old ones back in when the new calipers were fitted?

Might be a good idea to check and just rule out the possibility. I will however, wait until I've had the rolling road result done to see where that leads me. I'd rather not put stuff on which I know to be good only to ruin it. I'd rather put the bits all on together I know that's not ideal as I won't know whats fixed it(if it does) but at least there is a better chance of it working, I think... I hope.