Final leg of the on going judder issue.

D5meister

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I would put the studs in to hold the disk true on the hub and repeat bind test and borrow a clock to measue the run out. To make it easy retract the pads with lever so free running. Sometimes the disk isnt true with the wheel off.
Often the studs are too long without the wheel and foul. I use the big nuts from 15mm compression fittings as makeshift spacers, works well
 

D5meister

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If you are onto something the tread wear will differ around that wheel, not flat spotted but less tread depth over one area with scrubbing once per rev.
 

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I would put the studs in to hold the disk true on the hub and repeat bind test and borrow a clock to measue the run out. To make it easy retract the pads with lever so free running. Sometimes the disk isnt true with the wheel off.
Often the studs are too long without the wheel and foul. I use the big nuts from 15mm compression fittings as makeshift spacers, works well
Good idea with the compression fittings buddy , much better than what I’ve used in the past
 

A.J.

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Not heard from Jim for a while, hope thing's have gone forward for him rather than backwards :rolleyes::) Hope also that he is not driving a Type 'R' :eek:
 
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Jimbo1959

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Not heard from Jim for a while, hope thing's have gone forward for him rather than backwards :rolleyes::) Hope also that he is not driving a Type 'R' :eek:

Money has been the problem Andy or rather the lack of it, and this Corona virus issue has not been helping as no-one seems to want to work on anything but essential services vehicles at the moment.

I fitted the new set of discs that I got under warranty and I'm still bedding them in, so no news as yet, if this doesn't work the next plan is to do the bottom multi links on both sides and see where that takes me. Bankruptcy at this rate by all accounts.

If Swmbo hadn't put her foot down I'd have been driving an Audi TT TDi now, I took everyones advice and comments regarding the Type R and shelved it. Swmbo says I've spent to much on the car to let someone else get the benefit of a potentially final fix. She has a point I suppose, I'd like to keep and enjoy the car, but, and it's a big but, when do you step back and say ENOUGH!.

I've gotten to the point of loosing interest as it seems that every time I touch the car, other than cleaning it, there's a problem. For example, what should have been a one hour job to change both front brake discs the other day turned into a three hour marathon due to one of the pads falling out of the caliper as I lifted it away from the disc, it wouldn't go back in regardless of what I did, so, the first side took two hours and fifteen minutes due to all the faffing about and the second, thirty five minutes, with the final ten for tidying up and clearing away.

I was so scunnered and angry I was actually swearing out loud while working on it ... a bad sign.
If someone had appeared at that moment and offered to take it, I'd have told them where to ram it. :mad::mad::mad:

A neighbour with whom I get along very well was out walking his dog and actually stopped and asked if I was alright? Definitely not a good sign, so much so I felt obliged to apologise for my bad language.

Ach well, it can sit on the drive until I find the money for the parts and someone to change the damned things over I suppose. In the meantime I'll just have to enjoy driving the works van. :rolleyes:
 

A.J.

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Money has been the problem Andy or rather the lack of it, and this Corona virus issue has not been helping as no-one seems to want to work on anything but essential services vehicles at the moment.

I fitted the new set of discs that I got under warranty and I'm still bedding them in, so no news as yet, if this doesn't work the next plan is to do the bottom multi links on both sides and see where that takes me. Bankruptcy at this rate by all accounts.

If Swmbo hadn't put her foot down I'd have been driving an Audi TT TDi now, I took everyones advice and comments regarding the Type R and shelved it. Swmbo says I've spent to much on the car to let someone else get the benefit of a potentially final fix. She has a point I suppose, I'd like to keep and enjoy the car, but, and it's a big but, when do you step back and say ENOUGH!.

I've gotten to the point of loosing interest as it seems that every time I touch the car, other than cleaning it, there's a problem. For example, what should have been a one hour job to change both front brake discs the other day turned into a three hour marathon due to one of the pads falling out of the caliper as I lifted it away from the disc, it wouldn't go back in regardless of what I did, so, the first side took two hours and fifteen minutes due to all the faffing about and the second, thirty five minutes, with the final ten for tidying up and clearing away.

I was so scunnered and angry I was actually swearing out loud while working on it ... a bad sign.
If someone had appeared at that moment and offered to take it, I'd have told them where to ram it. :mad::mad::mad:

A neighbour with whom I get along very well was out walking his dog and actually stopped and asked if I was alright? Definitely not a good sign, so much so I felt obliged to apologise for my bad language.

Ach well, it can sit on the drive until I find the money for the parts and someone to change the damned things over I suppose. In the meantime I'll just have to enjoy driving the works van. :rolleyes:

Pleased to hear that you are OK Jim, worrying times at the moment, stay safe :)
 

D5meister

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I swear at my merc. Its a new thing 4 me. My previous car didnt evoke such negative emotion. Your not the only one.!!
 
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Jimbo1959

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I swear at my merc. Its a new thing 4 me. My previous car didnt evoke such negative emotion. Your not the only one.!!

I must admit this is the first car to evoke such emotions for me in quite some time, I got the better of the previous title holder by successfully repairing it and happily running it for four years.
 

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For example, what should have been a one hour job to change both front brake discs the other day turned into a three hour marathon due to one of the pads falling out of the caliper as I lifted it away from the disc, it wouldn't go back in regardless of what I did, so, the first side took two hours and fifteen minutes due to all the faffing about and the second, thirty five minutes, with the final ten for tidying up and clearing away.
There could be a clue here.
Something not quite right in the way the pad fits perhaps?

On the Civic Type Rs the original bread and were great but since then they become bloated and diluted and the current one looks like it's ram raided the local Halfords.
 
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Jimbo1959

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There could be a clue here.
Something not quite right in the way the pad fits perhaps?

I had to strip down, clean and regrease/lubricate everything Alistair and then, all of a sudden, it all clicked together without trying, the weirdest thing, I swear to goodness.
I thought, it fell out easily, it really should fall in just as easily but it wouldn't no matter what I tried. I ended up swearing like a Company SM, I totally lost it I'm embarrassed to admit. :(
It's all working as it should now, as I said weird. :rolleyes:
 
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Jimbo1959

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As a matter of interest what are the thoughts/opinions on applying a very thin smear of copper grease between the rotor hub face and the disc?
Good?
Bad?
Could cause more problems than it solves?
 

LostKiwi

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Strictly speaking no you shouldn't but in practical terms it's unlikely to cause any issue other than making it possible to hold a piece of grit that makes the disc run out of true.
 

D5meister

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I do, it stops the hub and disk corroding together.

Wipe the old copperslip away each time you disturb and put fresh clean smear on.
 
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Jimbo1959

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FURTHER UPDATE :-

Well, I've now covered almost 500 miles since renewing the front discs, I've broken them in very gently and I've not used the HOLD function unless the brakes were cold, basically avoiding doing so at all, and there is a marked improvement in how the brakes feel.

The judder is imperceptible now, :geek: I am much happier and, the car is once again a joy to drive. :D

I suspect that the problem had arisen as a result of a combination of factors, the use of the hold function when the brakes were hot, plus, not being gentle enough during the bedding in process.
I also suspect that being unable to drive for any more than short distances due to the Covid19 outbreak has assisted too, preventing the sort of heat build up that I would normally see driving, like I normally do, as if I had stolen the car. :p

Here I thought I had been a good boy, when bedding in the brakes at earlier attempts. Not good enough it would seem. :rolleyes:
However, as I said "a marked improvement", so much so, that I think, I will not need to get the front axle lower multilink suspension arms changed after all. ;)

I guess as/when driving habits get back to normal I will find out for sure if the problem is solved, fingers crossed. :)
 
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A.J.

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FURTHER UPDATE :-

Well, I've now covered almost 500 miles since renewing the front discs, I've broken them in very gently and I've not used the HOLD function unless the brakes were cold, basically avoiding doing so at all, and there is a marked improvement in how the brakes feel.

The judder is imperceptible now, :geek: I am much happier and, the car is once again a joy to drive. :D

I suspect that the problem had arisen as a result of a combination of factors, the use of the hold function when the brakes were hot, plus, not being gentle enough during the bedding in process.
I also suspect that being unable to drive for any more than short distances due to the Covid19 outbreak has assisted too, preventing the sort of heat build up that I would normally see driving , like I normally do, (as if I had stolen the car). :p

Here I thought I had been a good boy, when bedding in the brakes at earlier attempts. Not good enough it would seem. :rolleyes:
However, as I said "a marked improvement", so much so, that I think, I will not need to get the front axle lower multilink suspension arms changed after all. ;)

I guess as/when driving habits get back to normal I will find out for sure if the problem is solved, fingers crossed. :)

I am pleased to hear that Jim. Glad you persevered :)
 
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Jimbo1959

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I am pleased to hear that Jim. Glad you persevered :)

Not half as much as I am Andy, because I honestly couldn't think of a suitable replacement, that I could afford, which ticked as many boxes as the Coupé does. :D:D

I think the HOLD feature will be no longer used, just to be on the safe side. :rolleyes:
 

Janchee

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FURTHER UPDATE :-

Well, I've now covered almost 500 miles since renewing the front discs, I've broken them in very gently and I've not used the HOLD function unless the brakes were cold, basically avoiding doing so at all, and there is a marked improvement in how the brakes feel.

The judder is imperceptible now, :geek: I am much happier and, the car is once again a joy to drive. :D

I suspect that the problem had arisen as a result of a combination of factors, the use of the hold function when the brakes were hot, plus, not being gentle enough during the bedding in process.
I also suspect that being unable to drive for any more than short distances due to the Covid19 outbreak has assisted too, preventing the sort of heat build up that I would normally see driving, like I normally do, as if I had stolen the car. :p

Here I thought I had been a good boy, when bedding in the brakes at earlier attempts. Not good enough it would seem. :rolleyes:
However, as I said "a marked improvement", so much so, that I think, I will not need to get the front axle lower multilink suspension arms changed after all. ;)

I guess as/when driving habits get back to normal I will find out for sure if the problem is solved, fingers crossed. :)
Great news! Fingers crossed it stays like this... you’ve learnt a lot about brakes and suspension I’m guessing ;)
 

LostKiwi

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A useful tip I was given when starting out motor racing was to always allow brakes to cool gradually if possible but never to let the pad sit on the same spot on the disk while hot. In practice when rallying and stopping at a control at the end of a stage that meant stopping, allowing the marshall to take the time card and allowing the car to slowly inch forward or backward (or both) whilst waiting for them to return before setting off gently again.
On the road when coming to a stop after 'making progress' stop some 20 feet further back than you might otherwise and allow the car to inch forward till you can set off again. As long as the car is moving (even with brakes gently applied) you'll avoid uneven pad transfer which is what using hold promotes.
Alternatively put in N and use the parking brake (which doesn't get involved in normal braking) and keep your foot off the brake pedal.

There are 2 issues when the pad us in contact with a hot disk:
1. Uneven cooling which can distort the material slightly and cause structural changes in the metal
2. Pad material transferring from the pad to the surface of the disk where it bonds and forms high spots which can be difficult or impossible to remove.

A useful link here:
https://alconkits.com/support/brake-pad-info/110-the-real-truth-about-warped-brake-rotors

It may be worthwhile using a higher performance pad too as overheating the pad can overheat the disk causing hotspots and distortion.
 

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Not half as much as I am Andy, because I honestly couldn't think of a suitable replacement, that I could afford, which ticked as many boxes as the Coupé does. :D:D

I think the HOLD feature will be no longer used, just to be on the safe side. :rolleyes:
Have had a lot of bad reports about Hold on other makes as well.
Hold a technological solution to a non existent problem.
Just as an aside, what sort of wheels do you have on your car as they are really the heat sink for cooling.
 

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