Get A 4x4 And Live!

[hawk20]

People in 4x4s are 50 times less likely to be killed in crashes with another car than those of small and medium-sized cars, according to the Department of Transport.

The safest cars for drivers are the Land Rover Defender, Mercedes ML class, Toyota Landcruiser and Isuzu Trooper.

The cars with the worst records for driver deaths and serious injuries are the old-style Mini, the Fiat Panda, pre-1993 Nissan Micra, Daewoo Matiz and Suzuki Swift.

The DoT looked at police reports of more than 138,000 crashes from 2000 to 2004. Drivers of small and medium-sized cars involved in collisions with another car had a one in 200 chance of being killed, compared with fewer than one in 10,000 for drivers of people-carriers and 4x4s.
Just three per cent of 4x4 drivers were killed or seriously injured in collisions, compared with seven per cent of small-car drivers.
The figures were published on the DoT's website but the study has not been publicised. Some small cars bucked the trend and showed it was possible to combine fuel efficiency with safety.

The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety said that the figures did not take account of how a car was driven.
The council's director, Rob Gifford, told The Times: "Younger drivers, who take more risks and have more crashes, are more likely to drive smaller, older cars.
"The big problem arises when a large and small vehicle collide. The high bumper of a 4x4 may override the structural reinforcement of a small car and smack into the interior where the occupants are sitting.
"We would all be safer if we all drove around in small or medium-sized cars. But the total car fleet is becoming more incompatible, with sales growing fastest in the biggest and smallest categories."

 

[hawk20]

I meant to add I am baffled. Can anyone help? FIFTY times less likely to be killed in a crash with other vehicles is staggering. What are the possible reasons for this? The top four (Land Rover, Mercedes, Toyota and Isuzu Trooper): do they all have the old ladder type chassis or have they gone monocoque by now? Is chassis design a factor? Or is height a blessing safety-wise? Can't be just weight. Lots of vehicles and cars are as heavy.

 

[television]

I meant to add I am baffled. Can anyone help? FIFTY times less likely to be killed in a crash with other vehicles is staggering. What are the possible reasons for this? The top four (Land Rover, Mercedes, Toyota and Isuzu Trooper): do they all have the old ladder type chassis or have they gone monocoque by now? Is chassis design a factor? Or is height a blessing safety-wise? Can't be just weight. Lots of vehicles and cars are as heavy.

I think Hawk that the answer is in your first post, its 4 x 4 hiting smaller cars or where the high bumper on them goes over the top of a normal or small car.

No cars today have a chassis as such, when enough 4 x 4 cars fill the road so that they are the norm, then perhaps we shall see a change in the figures when they start crashing into each other.

Malcolm

 

[hawk20]

I think Hawk that the answer is in your first post, its 4 x 4 hiting smaller cars or where the high bumper on them goes over the top of a normal or small car.

No cars today have a chassis as such, when enough 4 x 4 cars fill the road so that they are the norm, then perhaps we shall see a change in the figures when they start crashing into each other.

Malcolm

Thanks for that. I can buy the argument that the high bumper goes over the top of a normal car. Surprised Top Gear haven't set up a few crashes of different cars versus a few 4x4's.

 

[Schtum]

I think Hawk that the answer is in your first post, its 4 x 4 hiting smaller cars or where the high bumper on them goes over the top of a normal or small car.

No cars today have a chassis as such, when enough 4 x 4 cars fill the road so that they are the norm, then perhaps we shall see a change in the figures when they start crashing into each other.

Malcolm

If that's case and I suspect it is, then 4x4's are like Nuclear weapons, for us all to be safe everyone must have one!

Unless that is, it's one of these. http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-1783784,00.html

 

[BarryG]

Ok I have never driven one lets make that clear.
But the majority I see look as if they havent seen deep puddles on the road, never mind gone offroad. What worries me is the way that people drive them, secure up in the air feeling invunerable. Of course this is just a personal view point, but just watching as I have drove around the city today hasnt changed my view. Pulling out at junctions or sudden manouvers as if to say so what if you hit me? Im safe up here.
By the way out of about 16 4x4s seen, only 2 were driven by men.
One being driven very erratically caught my attention in particular, as it didnt look as if anyone was driving. On getting closer when we came to a halt. I had to raise myself so my head was touching the roof, to see that it was a young woman mid twenties who looked as though she was using the steering wheel to pull herself up so she could see out of the cab.
I honestly dont think she could have a clear view all round her, there by leaving other road users and more scarily pedestrians at risk.
Saying all that I would still love to have a go of one, for what they are designed for ( OR WERE ) that is offroading. Have to look into that when Im up Scotland next year Or maybe hire one?
Just thought would the hire company be very pleased with me taking it offroad lol

 

[BarryG]

If that's case and I suspect it is, then 4x4's are like Nuclear weapons, for us all to be safe everyone must have one!

Unless that is, it's one of these. http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-1783784,00.html

Scary! going back to the days of made in China, meaning cheap and nasty.

 

[Andy Wr]

All this anti 4 x 4 talk and not been used used off road, I have only had mine for a couple of weeks and purchased it for regular light off road use, that was the reason to buy it, I have also booked up to take part in a full day off roading on varied terrain to get to know my car. Now my argument is what about all the van drivers, I also own and drive a Renault Trafic van which is as high as my ML, as long just a shorter bonnet and you see all kinds of people struggling to drive vans because as you are aware they can be difficult to reverse until you get used to them and the amount of old Transit vans on the road smoking their heads off and with missing door mirrors so they can not see down the side of their own vehicles is staggering so how about the anti lobbyists targeting old vans for a change and leave the 4 x4's alone, we have the right to drive what ever we want, If I want to get myself a gas guzzling Hummer then that is my choice, we all want to be safe in our vehicles, that is why I for one gave up motorbikes.

 

[ba9rn]

Saying all that I would still love to have a go of one...

Well you can always take a day playing. This place is not far from you: www.nyoffroad.co.uk

I had a go during a 'team building' day in Nottingham recently. It's amazing what you can do with a Discovery when it's driven where it's designed to be!

 

[ba9rn]

Unless that is, it's one of these. http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-1783784,00.html

I am in no way trying to defend them, but a quick google found this article which seems to contradict the other report: http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=155493

Thankfully, it appears that the Landwind is not available in the UK (yet).

 

[Schtum]

I am in no way trying to defend them, but a quick google found this article which seems to contradict the other report: http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=155493

Thankfully, it appears that the Landwind is not available in the UK (yet).

I wonder why?

I have driven a Land Rover 110 off road and they are amazing vehicles that given the correct inputs will go almost anywhere!

The shame is that the 4x4 is a style icon gone mad.

 

[hawk20]

The shame is that the 4x4 is a style icon gone mad.

In a characterless world where so many cars look alike, don't they add a bit of colour. They have made the estate car concept appeal to a wider audience and reading the winter traction thread, they offer real advantages in winter.

 

[kid-jensen]

Didn't one of the "Gears" (Top or Fifth) stage a head-on between a 4x4 and a Renault Espace?

The 4x4 came off significantly worse in terms of likely occupant injuries. The front crumpled much further than the Espace, hence the injuries. They said that the 4x4 gubbins didn't affect the result much except in increased weight, which would probably make things worse if it wasn't concentrated up-front.

I drive the wife's Freelander occasionally, but it's a dull old steer and such a performance to get it round corners that I avoid it as much as possible.

Maybe someone with a much better memory than me could point to the staged crash on a video clip.....it MUST be on Youtube somewhere....

 

[Hanz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEBC9PbjPv4 there we go!

 

[psmart]

Ok I have never driven one lets make that clear.
But the majority I see look as if they havent seen deep puddles on the road, never mind gone offroad. What worries me is the way that people drive them, secure up in the air feeling invunerable. Of course this is just a personal view point, but just watching as I have drove around the city today hasnt changed my view. Pulling out at junctions or sudden manouvers as if to say so what if you hit me? Im safe up here.
By the way out of about 16 4x4s seen, only 2 were driven by men.
One being driven very erratically caught my attention in particular, as it didnt look as if anyone was driving. On getting closer when we came to a halt. I had to raise myself so my head was touching the roof, to see that it was a young woman mid twenties who looked as though she was using the steering wheel to pull herself up so she could see out of the cab.
I honestly dont think she could have a clear view all round her, there by leaving other road users and more scarily pedestrians at risk.
Saying all that I would still love to have a go of one, for what they are designed for ( OR WERE ) that is offroading. Have to look into that when Im up Scotland next year Or maybe hire one?
Just thought would the hire company be very pleased with me taking it offroad lol

I agree on the attitude front, too many people drive 4x4's with a real attitude problem. Katyusha Rockets come to mind for these idiots. Faced one of them down whilst driving the C class, and it it wasnt for the fact he didnt like the look of me getting road rage, would have walked all over me.
Its one of those age old problems and as Television rightly points out, if the road were all 4x4's, then the death rate may be higher ... or should I say, it would be like one of those stock car events, survival of the best 4x4!!

 

[psmart]

Didn't one of the "Gears" (Top or Fifth) stage a head-on between a 4x4 and a Renault Espace?

The 4x4 came off significantly worse in terms of likely occupant injuries. The front crumpled much further than the Espace, hence the injuries. They said that the 4x4 gubbins didn't affect the result much except in increased weight, which would probably make things worse if it wasn't concentrated up-front.

I drive the wife's Freelander occasionally, but it's a dull old steer and such a performance to get it round corners that I avoid it as much as possible.

Maybe someone with a much better memory than me could point to the staged crash on a video clip.....it MUST be on Youtube somewhere....

Paul, we need to define 4x4! The Freelander has a poor record for safety, as mentioned on Top Gear (hence the new model). As Hawk20 mentioned, take the top 4x4's and face them down with an espace. Fibreglass, even with crumple zones against something much heavier and designed for off road (ie. accidents)?

 

[MBDevotee]

I meant to add I am baffled. Can anyone help? FIFTY times less likely to be killed in a crash with other vehicles is staggering. What are the possible reasons for this? The top four (Land Rover, Mercedes, Toyota and Isuzu Trooper): do they all have the old ladder type chassis or have they gone monocoque by now? Is chassis design a factor? Or is height a blessing safety-wise? Can't be just weight. Lots of vehicles and cars are as heavy.

Depends on the age of the cars in question - but certainly the earlier incarnations of all of these were ladder frame yes.

I know when my old W163 ML hit a van mine looked repairable (although it wasn't), the van was more of a v shape than a straight line!

 

[MilesMurphy]

I own a 110 3.5 v8 defender and i have to say if you rolled it(without roll cage), it would be game over. but they can flip easily if hit or hitting another car in the wrong place. however there still tanks that leak a lot. I wish i could afford a G Wagon! :sad:

 

[daveenty]

Well I have a 4x4 as well as my Merc, and can honestly say that I've not died in it in the nearly 9 years since this thread was first posted.

Having said that, I've done alright with the Mercedes as well so far...

 

[Peter De La Mare]

This is a nine year old thread.