hammerite underseal with waxoil (Black stuff)

[philharve]

Stabilization of atomic rust

Hi Phil,

Thanks for that really useful post. Were you told the name of the chemical used to treat atomic rust, if so what was it please? Ditto the two sealants used?

Also, was the bodyshop kjrule as per the link in your signature?

Thanks

Ray

Hi Ray

I didn't ask about the specific chemicals used but now I know of your interest I will enquire and report back.

I have agreed the estimate for the repair to the bottoms of the two nearside doors so I hope the repairs will be undertaken in June, subject to the availability of a loan car.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

Four good doors

Hi All

I have my C230K back from the bodyshop and it is looking magnificent following minor rust repairs to the bottoms of the two nearside doors. I have had the other two doors inspected and the bodyshop reports they are rust free. Once again a back-to-bare-metal approach was adopted to effect a lasting repair and the paint thickness built up above the MB standard like MBs vehicles of old. Hopefully it will be some years before the doors need attention again. I have little doubt that I will revisit the bodyshop in years to come but that is the cost of owning a Millennium C class.

I have been asked by some members, particularly 'White230CE', what substances were applied to protect the bodywork. I will report back when I have all the answers. I have not forgotten this request.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[jc41]

White230CE's query re the chemical treatment of rust doesn't seem to have been answered yet. For what it's worth here are some before and after pictures of preparing part of a sill for re-painting on my wife's Polo, using Hammerite rust remover gel. (Even better results were achieved on the R129, with its thicker metal panels).

1st picture shows the result of the initial attack with a Dremel sanding wheel.
2nd picture shows the expanded, de-rusted area after using the rust remover gel and how impossible it would have been to achieve similar cleanliness using abrasion, without making a hole in the metal.
3rd picture is the chemical cleaner.

It takes time to dissolve the rust and requires re-application and agitation at 15 minute intervals, but it does work rather well. I didn't make a note of the time, but this particular job probably took in the region of a 10 - 15 re-applications of the gel.

Jeremy

 

[philharve]

Professional repairs

White230CE's query re the chemical treatment of rust doesn't seem to have been answered yet. For what it's worth here are some before and after pictures of preparing part of a sill for re-painting on my wife's Polo, using Hammerite rust remover gel. (Even better results were achieved on the R129, with its thicker metal panels).

1st picture shows the result of the initial attack with a Dremel sanding wheel.
2nd picture shows the expanded, de-rusted area after using the rust remover gel and how impossible it would have been to achieve similar cleanliness using abrasion, without making a hole in the metal.
3rd picture is the chemical cleaner.

It takes time to dissolve the rust and requires re-application and agitation at 15 minute intervals, but it does work rather well. I didn't make a note of the time, but this particular job probably took in the region of a 10 - 15 re-applications of the gel.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy

It was my impression that 'White230CE' was seeking details of the chemicals used by a professional bodyshop which he/she might adapt for their own needs. If I am wrong I hope 'White230CE' will correct me?

Following this weeks visit to the bodyshop I hope to obtain brief details of what was performed and what substances were used. The results, I am pleased to say, are perfect.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[television]

Pleased Phil that you have that sorted now,, its worth spraying wax oil all under where possible and I would do it behind the rubbers on the doors with a paint brush

 

[philharve]

Spraying WaxOyl

Pleased Phil that you have that sorted now,, its worth spraying wax oil all under where possible and I would do it behind the rubbers on the doors with a paint brush

Hi Malcolm

My indie advises that during the next dry spell he would like to remove any rust from the underside of the chassis, including pipework, and spray the whole of the underside with WaxOyl. He reported during the last service that very light rust had begun to form on the underside in some parts and treatment now, repeated every few years, will ensure the chassis remains corrosion resistant for a great many years. Because I keep my cars for many years I am happy to agree with his suggestion. It's not an expensive process. I tend to think the lack of corrosion resistance has been the Achilles Heal of my motor and keeping it in check will be an ongoing cost but hopefully not to the same level of expense I've been used to.

On a separate issue ... my indie also reported during the last service that he has detected wear in the rear suspension bushes but he is waiting for it to become an MOT advisory before recommending action as I gather the parts alone come to about GBP200. I understand their replacement will necessitate a full geometry check. Could wear in the rear bushes be responsible for the steering sensitivity issue I have reported elsewhere?

REGARDS

Phil

 

[television]

Yes the front bushes on the rear sub frame do cause the car to wander or drift when accelerating when worn,,,there is a special tool for quickly removing them.

These have been in the news here on a few car this last few months, that could be the end of all of your steering troubles

 

[White230CE]

White230CE's query re the chemical treatment of rust doesn't seem to have been answered yet. For what it's worth here are some before and after pictures of preparing part of a sill for re-painting on my wife's Polo, using Hammerite rust remover gel. (Even better results were achieved on the R129, with its thicker metal panels).

1st picture shows the result of the initial attack with a Dremel sanding wheel.
2nd picture shows the expanded, de-rusted area after using the rust remover gel and how impossible it would have been to achieve similar cleanliness using abrasion, without making a hole in the metal.
3rd picture is the chemical cleaner.

It takes time to dissolve the rust and requires re-application and agitation at 15 minute intervals, but it does work rather well. I didn't make a note of the time, but this particular job probably took in the region of a 10 - 15 re-applications of the gel.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy and PhilHarve. Yes, it was the pro approach that I was interested in.

Jeremy, I've used the same stuff myself, and if I may share my experience: The dip is very very good, and I've used it to strip battery tray, bumper brackets, etc of rust. Usually needs a 24-48 hour soak, with one change. The gel, I found, works best if you apply a thick layer, then instead of repeated re-applications, cover it with cling film to keep it moist, tape up the edges of the cling film to keep it in place, then leave it 24-48 hours. Sometimes, a second 'gel and cling' if necessary. This method saves gel and time. I find that you can also move the gel within the cling film to focus it on the worst bits.

I am thinking of trying Marine Clean and POR 15 next, but would really be interested in what PhilHarve's bodyshop used, as part of my learning curve.

 

[White230CE]

Hi Malcolm

My indie advises that during the next dry spell he would like to remove any rust from the underside of the chassis, including pipework, and spray the whole of the underside with WaxOyl. He reported during the last service that very light rust had begun to form on the underside in some parts and treatment now, repeated every few years, will ensure the chassis remains corrosion resistant for a great many years. Because I keep my cars for many years I am happy to agree with his suggestion. It's not an expensive process. I tend to think the lack of corrosion resistance has been the Achilles Heal of my motor and keeping it in check will be an ongoing cost but hopefully not to the same level of expense I've been used to.


REGARDS

Phil

I came across this some time ago, which made for interesting reading, and because he is quite near me, I may well give him a try at some stage.

http://www.before-n-after.co.uk/

 

[teddycatkin]

Tony --not sure where the rust is on a C320 front wing? --I dont know if its same a W124 --front lower part of wing in front of wheel arch ?--if if is -then I have found the only permenant cure is to clean it all out -and remove any rust repair and paint --or fit new wing -then inside a good spraying -or brushing with Waxoyl (ordinary)--let it soak well in a week or two then get a handfull of grease and smear it into that inner front pocket of the wing where the water collects--Its a messy but effective cure and lasts a long time too?

 

[joe1972]

Front nearside/passenger (on a RHD car) wing just in front of the arch......I've seen so many W124 rust there. Only really noticed it when I got mine that was badly affected, then started looking around at others. Ironically, on the offside where the air intake grill is I would have thought they'd be loads...but not a spot of it! Rust on on the nearside of mine had spread to the bumper bracket and back up under where the headlight is. Suprisingly little of it visiable from the outside, other than a small blob where the wing meets the bumber (isn't it always the case?!)
Carefully cutting and shaping some mild, then welding in was my only option. too far gone for any paint on treatment.
However, I did get carried away when I found a couple of cannisters of Dinitrol....so sprayed the lot on the underside......then was conveniently told by the missus her SL had an advisory, and would I spray hers too!!! (I ending up welding a patch on hers too)

That's without even takling the 190e....the rear jacking points are very 'biscuity', but it keeps passing it's MOT!!!....I had a good mind to weld on some thick stainless plate....then hopefully I wont keep missing the jacking point with the trolley jack!:Oops:

 

[Juddian]

I came across this some time ago, which made for interesting reading, and because he is quite near me, I may well give him a try at some stage.

http://www.before-n-after.co.uk/

I thought about using this chap for the pick up...seeing as he's now moved from Newbury to Rugby.

Big BUT....for 4 x 4's he's quoting £495 +VAT.

I'll do it meself again.

 

[philharve]

WaxOyl underbody treatment

I thought about using this chap for the pick up...seeing as he's now moved from Newbury to Rugby.

Big BUT....for 4 x 4's he's quoting £495 +VAT.

I'll do it meself again.

Interesting this link. I wonder how long a single application is supposed to be effective?

My indie will give my C class the same/similar treatment when we have the next dry spell. However, he estimated the cost as being something like GBP60.00, probably ex-VAT. He estimates about 2 hours work. I wonder in what way the 'Before & After' treatment differs in order to cost so much more?

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

Update

Hi All

I've written to my bodyshop and requested details of the processes and materials used by the professional restorer. I know that most reading this thread will be interested primarily in rust repair techniques and my request to the bodyshop owner is made in this context.

I don't know when I will receive his reply but I will remind the owner periodically until I get an answer.

I don't think any of the techniques employed are 'secret'. The key factor in a successful and long term repair is thoroughness and preparation but I am personally interested in what materials are used and how they differ from the materials that can be purchased in the average high street motoring shop.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

The bodyshop's reply

Hi All

I have received a reply from Keith Rule, the owner of the champion bodyshop located in the centre of Cornwall. His reply in its entirety follows.

I have had my car repaired by Keith on 4 occasions and can testify to the quality and thoroughness of his work. He also photographs each stage of a repair for the benefit of the customer, the insurer and Mercedes-Benz if warranty work is involved.

The only part of his reply that came as a surprise to me was that the repair process was dependent upon the model of vehicle. This may be a reference to recent models which use non-ferrous materials in their construction, such as wings.

Keith's advice is mainly for the older Mercedes vehicle, like mine, which are sadly rust prone. What Keith doesn't mention is that he uses a back-to-bare-metal approach and the paint coating is built up in layers and dried between stages to a standard comparable to the older Mercedes vehicles. I have greater than 50 percent more paint on my repaired panels than when my car left the factory and I have every confidence they will need no further attention for many years to come.


Dear Phil,

With reference to your letter concerning rust repairs to Mercedes-Benz vehicles, the repair process actually depends on the model of the vehicle and where the rusted area is on the vehicle. This will then determine the type of repair we will use as recommended by the Mercedes-Benz Repair methods.

However, as a general rule, rusted areas will be shot blasted, epoxy primed, seam sealed and painted to finnish. The type of waxoil, seam sealers and products we use are supplied to us by Mercedes-Benz parts department and the epoxy primer and colour coatings are supplied by Spies Hecker paint company.

The main thing to remember is that after shot blasting with furnace slag the epoxy primer should be applied asap to avoid any oxidisation.

I hope this information will be of some help.

Best Wishes,
Keith Rule
K J Rule & Son Ltd.


REGARDS

Phil

 

[television]

There has always been the argument that sand blasting peens the metal over rust pit mark,,and they come back later

 

[philharve]

Possibility of rust returning?

There has always been the argument that sand blasting peens the metal over rust pit mark,,and they come back later

Hi Malcom

I will be keeping my eyes peeled.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[White230CE]

Thanks for that Phil.