HID Conversion kit -HID Xenon

[Chas]

Folks,
I am thinking of trying a HID Xenon Conversion kit for my S320 (2001).
Has anyone any experience or had any probs with them?

The kit I am going for is

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=282

The company seem experienced, helpful,and friendly, but I am always cautious and would appreciate any comments/feedback.

ps I cant justify spending £1,500 on Xenons, (the wife would kill me )so this is about as close as I will get till I retire!

thanks

Chas

 

[Chas]

As an after thought are they legal??

http://tinyurl.co.uk/q702

Thinking of converting to HID?

So you've read about HID headlamps and have it in mind to convert your car. A few mouse clicks on the web, and you've found a couple of outfits offering to sell you a "conversion" that will fit any car with a given type of halogen bulb. STOP! Put away that credit card.

An HID kit consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for "retrofitting" into a halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit! Real Hella kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of legitimacy. Fact: While some of the components in these kits are sometimes manufactured by the companies mentioned, the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. NEVER endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.

A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.

When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are *the* driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.

Now, what about those "retrofit" jobs in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't be fooled; it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff. In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.

As if the optical mismatch weren't reason enough to drop the idea of "retrofitting" an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs—and it is reason enough!—there are even more reasons why not to do it. Here are some of them:

The only available arc capsules have a longitudinal arc (arc path runs front to back) on the axis of the bulb, but many popular halogen headlamp bulbs, such as 9004, 9007, H3 and H12, use a filament that is transverse (side-to-side) and/or offset (not on the axis of the bulb) central axis of the headlamp reflector). In this case, it is impossible even to roughly approximate the position and orientation of the filament with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Just because your headlamp might use an axial-filament bulb, though, doesn't mean you've jumped the hurdles—the laws of optical physics don't bend even for the cleverest marketing department, nor for the catchiest HID "retrofit" kit box.

The latest gimmick is HID arc capsules set in an electromagnetic base so that they shift up and down or back and forth. These are being marketed as "dual beam" kits that claim to address the loss of high beam with fixed-base "retrofits" in place of dual-filament halogen bulbs. (A cheaper variant of this is one that uses a fixed HID bulb with a halogen bulb strapped or glued to the side of it...yikes!) What you wind up with is two poorly-formed beams, at best. The reason the original equipment market has not adopted the movable-capsule designs they've been playing with since the mid 1990s is because it is impossible to control the arc position accurately so it winds up in the same position each and every time.

In the original-equipment field, there are single-capsule dual-beam systems appearing ("BiXenon", etc.), but these all rely on a movable optical shield, or movable reflector—the arc capsule stays in one place. The Original Equipment engineers have a great deal of money and resources at their disposal, and if a movable capsule were a practical way to do the job, they'd do it. The "retrofit" kits certainly don't address this problem anywhere near satisfaction. And even if they did, remember: Whether a fixed or moving-capsule "retrofit" is contemplated, solving the arc-position problem and calling it good is like going to a hospital with two broken ribs, a sprained ankle and a crushed toe and having the nurse say "Well, you're free to go home now, we've put your ankle in a sling!" Focal length (arc/filament positioning) is only just ONE issue out of several.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely, HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers agree: DON'T!

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage. But just putting an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.

 

[Chas]

OK,
found the answer myself.

http://www.h-i-d.co.uk/index.shtml#


LEGALITY
NOTES ON ROAD LEGALITY AND QUALITY OF OUR HID :

Both versions of our HID systems are DOT approved, MOT approved and fully E-compliant in all safety, E.M. emmission and performance specifications. As far as we are aware these are the only HID kits on the market that meet all these requirements.
This makes our kits ROAD LEGAL ; there is a lot of misinformation regarding the legality of HID systems fitted to cars without headlamp power wash and rear axle self levelling ...these are only an E.U. legal requirement on Xenon systems fitted to NEW cars AT THE FACTORY PRODUCTION STAGE .
HID systems fitted as aftermarket accessory DO NOT REQUIRE the car to have power wash or self levelling ; even the DOT get this wrong sometimes .... our expensive lawyers did not !

 

[Chas]

Just to confuse things more........

Department of Transport (UK)

The situation for Gas Discharge (HID High Intensity Discharge) (commonly known as Xenon) headlamps is complex.

I attach links to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 which regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However you will be well aware that new vehicles have Xenon headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the Xenon headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "Xenon is banned in the aftermarket" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require Xenon in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a Xenon headlamp sold in the aftermarket should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3, Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Hope that helps.

***

We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.)
The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers. "

 

[Bolide]

We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.)
The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers. "

Who said this? I'd be interested to know under which law(s) they are not legal

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Well i fitted aftermarket HID to a previous car.

All i can say is that they were clearly an improvment. The car had twin H7 bulbs as standard.

Both close and long range were significantly improved.

Always made me smile every time i switched them on.

Owned the car for a year and never had a problem with the Philips Ballasts. When i sold the car i took them off and sold the kit, thats nearly 3 years ago and they are still working fine for the person who bought them.

 

[Chas]

it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits

Who said this? I'd be interested to know under which law(s) they are not legal

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

This is the reply I got from the DOT



------------------FACT SHEET--------------
December 2006

Aftermarket HID headlamps


In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

 

[Schtum]

This is the reply I got from the DOT



------------------FACT SHEET--------------
December 2006

Aftermarket HID headlamps


In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

Hi Chas.

What an informative post this is, thanks. I have been looking at HID's and this was just the info I've been looking for as I know a few folk who have fitted these kits to their bikes and I'm now telling them they are illegal. Which does not go down well... Anyway, you can buy a new BMW bike with HID light for an extra £300. The interesting bit is, that bike has neither self leveling suspension of headlamp washer so I'm thinking these rules must not apply to motorcycles? Any idea's?

 

[Pookis Dad]

HID's

I owna Renault Laguna 2 of 2002 vintage.

It is fitted with HID headlamps complete with washers and self leveling reflectors.

Some people seem to think the suspension on the vehicle is self leveling, not so.

However, there are sensors fitted to the front and rear suspension that automaticaly adjust the dipped beam if the vehicle is loaded and whilst it is driving, if it encounters any rough terrain.

I test my system by switching on the headlamps, then starting the engine. What happens is the headlamp reflectors motor all the way down to find their bottom level, then motor back up to standard dip according to the weight in the car.

Seeing as how my car is an estate and is either fully laden or fully empty at any given time, I find the system invaluable.

The reason for the headlamp washers is obvious, it's to clear away the dirt and stop refraction blinding other drivers.

In the 3 years I have owned this car I have never ever been flashed for blinding others even when the car is so laden it practicaly scrapes it's arse going over bumps.

If anyone want's HID headlamps then the best advice I have is either buy a car with them factory fitted or buy the proper kit with all the requirements.

In the end it'll keep you legal.

The only down side of having these type of lamps is replacement costs.

I hit a deer a couple of years back and it cost me almost £300 for a headlamp and bulb. The ballast unit was untouched so was able to re-use it. However, you need the fancy (phone box) torx drivers to remove the thing so I now have a fancy little tool kit with all manner of queer fittments to remove strange headed screws.

Take the above advice from Chas, don't do it.

 

[star]

Folks,
I am thinking of trying a HID Xenon Conversion kit for my S320 (2001).
Has anyone any experience or had any probs with them?

The kit I am going for is

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=282

The company seem experienced, helpful,and friendly, but I am always cautious and would appreciate any comments/feedback.

ps I cant justify spending £1,500 on Xenons, (the wife would kill me )so this is about as close as I will get till I retire!

thanks

Chas

Fitted these from hid4u to my ferrari, wow wot an improvement. no beam issues with on coming traffic. if you go by the letter of the law, you could be in trouble for just fitting higher wattage normal bulbs. fit them, as long as you don't blind other drivers all will be well.

 

[Larchlap]

Hid's

Hi, I fitted them to my last car a Mitsubishi FTO, what an improvement, so I thought I would try one in my bike a 1988 BMW k100rs, because they draw a lot less current (30w instead of 75w I think) it kept showing headlight fault, I think the same would apply to any vehicle that has the ability to check if a bulbs is not working/blown, my MB has this facility so I am unsure that it will work unless some form of ballast is added in the headlight circuits to compensate for the lower load. larchlap. :?