How many things have Mercedes thought of?

[television]

the are variations in all of these things, without looking at all of the specs its impossible to say exactly what is what.

I had laminated glass in my 1928RR but there are many forms of it in the way that it beaks ages and breaks, was it the safety zone glass, who knows

 

[rf065]

I think Alex M Grieve has hit the nail on the head in post number 153.

Marketing people can take hold of something & turn it into something it is not which then sticks.

A bit like the BMW badge representing the propellors of a plane, even though the badge was in use many years before they built their first aero engine.

Russ

 

[television]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2007/06/27/auto-tech-volvos-history-of-safety-innovations.htm

 

[rf065]

If Saab & Volvo are claiming they are responsible for crumple zones in 1966, they should be aware that a quick internet search credits them to Mercedes in 1959.

"Bela Berenyi, an engineer at Mercedes, came up with a safety concept that would completely change how cars were designed and built. Prior to 1959, people believed the stronger the structure, the safer the car. But in actuality, such construction proved deadly to passengers, because the force from impact went straight inside the vehicle and onto the passenger. Berenyi knew that he would have to find a way to dissipate the force of a crash before it reached the passenger. In the end, he designed two "crumple zones"—one in the front of a car and one in the back. Crumple zones relied on a skeletal frame of special materials that would crumple in predictable ways, absorbing the energy of a collision."

I think all of these claims made by manufacturers should be scrutinised before you take it as read, especially the swedish ones.

Russ

 

[television]

If Saab & Volvo are claiming they are responsible for crumple zones in 1966, they should be aware that a quick internet search credits them to Mercedes in 1959.

"Bela Berenyi, an engineer at Mercedes, came up with a safety concept that would completely change how cars were designed and built. Prior to 1959, people believed the stronger the structure, the safer the car. But in actuality, such construction proved deadly to passengers, because the force from impact went straight inside the vehicle and onto the passenger. Berenyi knew that he would have to find a way to dissipate the force of a crash before it reached the passenger. In the end, he designed two "crumple zones"—one in the front of a car and one in the back. Crumple zones relied on a skeletal frame of special materials that would crumple in predictable ways, absorbing the energy of a collision."

I think all of these claims made by manufacturers should be scrutinised before you take it as read, especially the swedish ones.

Russ

You can think what you like, its up to you, I have had the benefit of living in Sweden for many years and have had a Volvo for 10 years, if you had worked alongside Swedish people you would know them to to be the least boastful people on this planet.

And their cars never go rusty,,, you should read this to know about the glass

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2007/06/27/auto-tech-volvos-history-of-safety-innovations.htm

 

[rf065]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2007/06/27/auto-tech-volvos-history-of-safety-innovations.htm

The first problem with this is that the information is taken from a Volvo CD, no doubt made up for advertising & marketing purposes, I think that is where the problem lies.

Russ

 

[television]

The first problem with this is that the information is taken from a Volvo CD, no doubt made up for advertising & marketing purposes, I think that is where the problem lies.

Russ

Ignore the glass then, but all the rest stands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars

Still not one recorded whip lash claim in a volvo, this still stands

 

[rf065]

Ignore the glass then, but all the rest stands
[

It would be interesting to have the time to research all of them to see how many do, but the laminated screen & crumple zones do not stand up. I've also looked at windscreen washers being a Volvo first in 1956, and found Studebaker fitted them in 1937.

I've no doubt Saab & Volvo have done a lot for car safety, but feel this information is freely put out by marketing departments who do not care if they are bending the truth even slightly.

Russ

 

[hawk20]

In this case, laminated glass was being used before Volvo even existed & well before 1944 when they claim to be the first to use it.

Russ

A lot of other things on that list were invented by Mercedes and others. A trip to Wikipedia may help. But crumple zones were definitely from Mercedes. And many other safety features. There is a very long list which one of the car mags published -can't find it- and MB occurred more than any others.

 

[television]

A lot of other things on that list were invented by Mercedes and others. A trip to Wikipedia may help. But crumple zones were definitely from Mercedes. And many other safety features. There is a very long list which one of the car mags published -can't find it- and MB occurred more than any others.

That just is not true hawk, just because we love our cars that does not make MB the best at innovation.

More inventions have come out of Sweden that any other country, if not by Swedes living abroad, even most of the computer technology was and is done by Swedes .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars

makes the MB one look a little low on the list of things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz

 

[popuptoaster]

Claiming firsts has been going of for years, BMW have been claiming the first mass produced turbo car for years even though the yanks beat em to it with the Corvair turbo by about 7 years, they all just rely on the fact most people will believe anything they are told.

 

[jberks]

Volvo are (or were) certainly at the forefront of safety technology for a long time but that doesn't escape the fact that a number of these claims are simply untrue. In fact some of it looks so ficticious that it could only have come out of Volvo's US marketing team. I have to agree with Malcolm that there is no way the Swedes would come up with such cobblers by themselves.

A small sample

1984 ABS, anti-locking brakes - Sorry, first introduced in its present form in the Merc S Class in 1978.

2002 RSC, Roll Stability Control
2002 ROPS, Roll-Over Protection System SUV (XC90)
Names for different ESP systems - first commercially introduced by MB after the A class elk debacle - around 1999. Traction systems have been around a lot longer - I had one on my C class in 1995.

2006 ACC, Adaptive Cruise Control
In August 1997, Toyota began to offer a radar based cruise control system on the Toyota Celsior
Jaguar Cars, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz offer radar-based systems in 1999
So - showing no favour to MB, Toyota got there first.


2007 Lane Departure Warning -
The first production lane departure warning system in Europe was the system developed by Iteris for Mercedes Actros commercial trucks. The system debuted in 2000 and is now available on most trucks sold in Europe.

I was going to credit Citroen with this one as it was the first place I'd heard of it - but on researching it, there's MB again!

I think a touch of overzelous claiming has been going on in that list.
As Clarkson correctly pointed out, if you want to know what technological innovations will be on a regular car in a few years, check out the new S class.

 

[hawk20]

That just is not true hawk, just because we love our cars that does not make MB the best at innovation.

More inventions have come out of Sweden that any other country, if not by Swedes living abroad, even most of the computer technology was and is done by Swedes .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars

makes the MB one look a little low on the list of things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz

Well from your own link you will see that Volvo did not invent crumple zones as they claim -MB did.
This from your link (just the first four items and IMO probably the most important ones of all): -
Numerous technological innovations have been introduced on Mercedes-Benz automobiles throughout the many years of their production, including:
• The first passenger road car to have brakes on all four wheels (1924) [36]
• The "Safety cage" or "Safety cell" construction with front and rear crumple zones was first developed by Mercedes-Benz in 1951. This is considered by many as the most important innovation in automobile construction from a safety standpoint [37]
• In 1959, Mercedes-Benz patented a device that prevents drive wheels from spinning by intervening at the engine, transmission, or brakes. In 1987, Mercedes-Benz applied its patent by introducing a Traction control system that worked under both braking and acceleration.
• Anti-lock brakes (ABS), traction control and airbags in the European market, were Mercedes-Benz innovations.[citation needed] These technologies were introduced in 1978, 1986, and 1980 respectively.

 

[rf065]

That just is not true hawk, just because we love our cars that does not make MB the best at innovation.

More inventions have come out of Sweden that any other country, if not by Swedes living abroad, even most of the computer technology was and is done by Swedes .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Cars

makes the MB one look a little low on the list of things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz

According to the info here............. http://ezinearticles.com/?Mercedes-Benz-Safety---Luxury-Features-That-Protect-You&id=1852137

The MB list should be 2500 items long. It says........


"Years ago, you really had one choice when it came to a safe cars - Volvo. Nobody else had the reputation for safety they did. There was even a joke in a Dudley Moore movie that a Volvo ad should say, "We're boxy, but we're safe." But these days, Mercedes-Benz safety is up there with the best...and it has really always been that way.

Mercedes-Benz formed its own department for safety development 65 years ago, headed by Austrian engineer Bela Barenyi. That department became a hotbed of innovation for the carmaker. Here's just a short list of Mercedes-Benz safety innovations that we all pretty much take for granted in modern cars:

A safety steering column to protect the driver
Crumple zones in various areas of the vehicle (which was in production by 1953)
Side impact protection
Airbags
Anti-lock brakes
Seat belt tensioners
Those features demonstrate that Mercedes-Benz is really the source of modern automobile safety. They pioneered over 2,500 car safety inventions."

Russ

 

[television]

Well from your own link you will see that Volvo did not invent crumple zones as they claim -MB did.
This from your link (just the first four items and IMO probably the most important ones of all): -
Numerous technological innovations have been introduced on Mercedes-Benz automobiles throughout the many years of their production, including:
• The first passenger road car to have brakes on all four wheels (1924) [36]
• The "Safety cage" or "Safety cell" construction with front and rear crumple zones was first developed by Mercedes-Benz in 1951. This is considered by many as the most important innovation in automobile construction from a safety standpoint [37]
• In 1959, Mercedes-Benz patented a device that prevents drive wheels from spinning by intervening at the engine, transmission, or brakes. In 1987, Mercedes-Benz applied its patent by introducing a Traction control system that worked under both braking and acceleration.
• Anti-lock brakes (ABS), traction control and airbags in the European market, were Mercedes-Benz innovations.[citation needed] These technologies were introduced in 1978, 1986, and 1980 respectively.

Not as many as Volvo and some not very important from MB, but you will never accept that Volvo are the innovators more safety things than MB when it come to the occupants or pedestrians, even a simple car seat, not one claim ever from Volvo for whiplash, MB cannot say the same

 

[hawk20]

Not as many as Volvo and some not very important from MB, but you will never accept that Volvo are the innovators more safety things than MB when it come to the occupants or pedestrians, even a simple car seat, not one claim ever from Volvo for whiplash, MB cannot say the same

Malcolm: get this right. I have never claimed that MB have invented more safety things than MB. Are you thinking of someone else?

What I did say was that the Volvo list of claims contained things they had not invented and I gave the example of crumple zones. Your own link proves I was correct.

Now read Jberks to see some more Volvo 'lies' or 'misclaims'?

I do think MB's inventions have been more important for safety than any other car makers.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Matters of fact

Happy to hold your jackets, if that would help?

 

[rf065]

What I did say was that the Volvo list of claims contained things they had not invented

In support of that, there is another internet site which claims.......

"Myths versus Reality

As we're sure you know, there are a lot of myths surrounding Volvo and more importantly, some of them are actually supported by the Swedish automaker itself. The official Volvo website is the best example in this matter.

First of all, Volvo says ABS (anti-locking brakes) first appeared in a Volvo. False! While early ABS systems date in 1929 as they were first designed to be installed on aircrafts, the first modern technology was actually jointly-developed by Bosch and Mercedes-Benz during the '70s. The first passenger car to get the resulting ABS system was the S-Klasse in 1978.

Secondly, the frontal airbag. Once again, Volvo says the airbag first came in a Volvo but history demonstrates that the first mass-produced model to get a front airbag was the 1980 Mercedes S-Klasse. The airbag was only available as an option. Earlier airbag systems appeared during the '70s in the United States, with Ford one of the first companies to test the resulting safety technologies."

No one is claiming who is safer than who, only that Volvo appear to be a bit economical with the truth on some of their "inventions".

Russ

 

[television]

No one is claiming who is safer than who, only that Volvo appear to be a bit economical with the truth on some of their "inventions".

Russ

What is often ignored is when car makers get together to pioneer new things like crumple zones.

One can push these things around till the cows come home.

Hawk says they that MB were the first with 4 wheel brakes, yet I have a photo and details here of a RR with 6 wheel brakes and a servo as well this was photographed in Feb 1924 in the French Rivera, and there were many 4 wheel braked cars around then

 

[rf065]

This is an interesting read, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_superlatives

It says that Argyll were the first with 4 wheel brakes in 1909.

I also noticed Studebaker had windscreen defroster vents in 1928 while your list for Volvo claims they had them first in 1954, which kind of says it all really.

Russ