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Injector problems

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by rburnham11, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    Hi all
    So I have recently changed the injectors in my 04 viano due to it not starting, black death on injector 3. All went well I thought however the replacement second hand injectors although seemed to work the van was kicking out lots of black smoke and running poorly. Do injectors need to be programmed?
    Next I have noticed a lot of water outside on the floor left side if you were sitting in the van, and also passenger side foot well (uk). The water feels slick like not just plain water too. I've heard horror stories of piercing the water jacket, would this cause water to leak like this, inside and outside the van.
    Now assuming it is a pierced water jacket is there a way to repair it in situ, I have read about jb weld, can someone explain exactly what to do.
    This van isn't worth spending the money on so sending to a MB garage is not really a option.
     
  2. NBurns

    NBurns Senior Member

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    I can answer your first question. Yes injectors do need programming into the onboard controller.
    Unless there is an automatic way they can be programmed.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    depends my a class ones did not... a lot will run on orgional stored map , but will run better when coded to the eng ecu. at least in my experience
     
  4. alexanderfoti

    alexanderfoti MBO Forum Supporter Authorised Forum Supporter

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    Not sure on an 04vito. Early cdi don't need to be programmed. Later ones have a number in a circle that needs to be programmed.

    It then gets more complicated from then. Take a picture of the injector and we can tell.
     
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  5. NBurns

    NBurns Senior Member

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    Sorry, my mistake.



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  6. Kev555

    Kev555 Senior Member

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    Talking from torment at start of year from injectors on my vito, wether they need programmed or not they should still be running black smoke free, just lumpy I found in mine if they need coded. Probably best to get codes read and if nothing points there leave the injectors in to get tested if they are not reconditioned ones. That will probably cost 60- 80 quid for the proper test but some diesel specialists do a quick test for a lot less. I got a faulty injector in a recon set I put in mine.

    Alexander will keep you right as him and other guys on forum here pulled me out of manys a hole :)
     
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  7. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    Hi all, thanks for your replies.
    Right where I stand now... I coded the injectors using icarsoft v2. Input the 6 digit code. All seemed to be ok except black smoke. It revs smoothly but chucks out a lot of black smoke as revs start to build. I'll try to upload a picture of existing injectors and the second hand replacement ones. Thoughts?

    Second problem, probably more worrying problem. I made a huge stupid error. On injector number 4 (back one I assume) I stupidly tightened the clamp bolt down without noticing the clamp wasn't in the correct position so the bolt went deeper. Now I seem to have a coolant leak, leaking into passenger footwell. I've pressurised the system and it's a steady drip from what appears to be the heater matrix. I can't see any leak from around the engine only inside the car, I can't see how the bolt incident could cause this but it's too coincidental.

    Please any help would be much appreciated.
    Cheers
    Rich
     
  8. Kev555

    Kev555 Senior Member

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    Thought you had a footwell leak before you started injectors? What engine type is in your Viano? Dont think it would be possible for leak to find its way to footwell from there if theres even a chance to pierce the water jacket through the injector bolt holes. Any leaks would more than likely appear around the injector area, so dont panic just yet as its probably your matrix if you see it dripping, Post up pictures of engine and injectors if your not sure
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  9. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    WhatsApp Image 2019-11-07 at 13.05.14(1).jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-11-07 at 13.05.14(2).jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-11-07 at 13.05.14(3).jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-11-07 at 13.05.14.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2019-11-07 at 13.11.32.jpeg

    these pictures show where the water is running down from the heater matrix part I believe then soaking the passenger footwell.
    first injector picture is one of the original injectors. the second injector picture is one of the replacement secondhand injectors.
    not sure if these pictures can help. are these the correct injectors for a 2004 viano w639 2.2 auto?
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    Any help or advice would really be appreciated guys at I'm running out of ideas. Starting to think the replacement injectors are either not the right model or not in great condition.
    Do injectors once programmed instantly run well or does it need a drive around to calibrate?
     
  11. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    An excellent MB independent in the form of Alex Crow Mercedes is in Stowmarket , if that helps
     
  12. Kev555

    Kev555 Senior Member

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    Your injectors are different from my Delphi so possibly different engine to mine I think. Dont worry some of the other more knowledgeable guys will be able to tell you. Injectors should run fairly smooth if they are good before programming. The difference in mine before and after programming was not noticeable audibly or even smoke wise during revving. Only difference I could see was in running smoothness live data values but I also didn't test drive it before programming the injectors. If you strongly suspect the injectors are at fault, my advice is leave them into a diesel specialist or the Indie Wighty mentioned above to get tested . Cant see clearly on one of the injectors but part numbers look different on them injectors unless one is a superseded. Only reason i mention that is one of the problems I had with my Vito was somebody put a wrong injector in it before I bought it(Lemon). Some of the experts on here will confirm if them part numbers are something to doubt. Looks like your coolant or should I say lack of it has done the harm to the matrix with all that rusty stains on the carpet. Bright side is at least it sounds like you got your black death injector out handy enough. I had to pay a specialist £170 for less than an hours work to pull my injector out after trying numerous things for two weeks:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  13. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    ok update, as Kev555 said, the numbers were mismatched so ordered new set (well second hand) put them in, coded them up with the icarsoft and all is good, now it starts and revs nicely. water leak is kind of sorted, put a tub of K seal through and seemed to stop the leak although I have since found the cause of the leak, a jubiliee clip has snapped on the heater matrix pipe in engine bay so hopefully replace that and that's sorted.
    now although seems to run ok with no black smoke any more, it seems to be more sluggish than I remember, like now going up slight hills it changes down and seems to make a noise when under load, not like a hissing but more of like a louder engine sound. only does this under load. its hard to explain, feels like a boost leak but no engine light and the noise isn't the type of hissing sound or whooshing sound I would expect from a boost leak.
    debating whether to install new turbo and possibly chop the cat out.

    again any help would be much appreciated
     
  14. bembo449

    bembo449 Senior Member

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    good news but a bit kneejerk to put K seal through it pal
     
  15. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    Jeez I wouldn't put K Seal anywhere near my engine! It has a nasty habit of clogging small galleries such as heater matrix.

    Check all your intercooler pipes and intercooler for leaks. The pipes are known to split and can be hard to see the damage. Intercoolers sit in a wet and dirty environment subjected to winter salt and this can corrode them.

    Don't waste your money changing turbochargers until you've proved that's the problem. Turbos often get changed when there's nothing wrong with them.

    There's an old saying - "Test, don't guess".

    Gutting or removing the cat is a pretty irresponsible thing to do.
     
  16. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    yes I do regret such a hasty decision, at the time I feared the worst and jumped to conclusions, hopefully it will be ok. worth draining the system? I guess its already got to the sensitive places by now though.
    getting rid of the cat was a thought for testing purposes as I have read that blocked cats can cause problems and quite hard to detect as the problem. I have a boost pipe tester on order so hopefully I can pressurise the pipes and rule that out as the problem. we are talking about a 04 van with 190k miles so not sure if its ever had a replacement turbo.
    any other usual suspects to look for when power seems to be low? maf? boost sensors? egr?
    thanks
     
  17. Kev555

    Kev555 Senior Member

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    Nice one you got it running again:D. Are you sure it isn't blowing by the injector washers? as regard the hissing sound and loss of power. I take it you fitted injectors according to Mercedes spec? (Washers and torque) I would get a diagnostic reading done to tell what level of ash is in the DPF before doing anything drastic. ( cant remember if the icarsoft can do that?) Any codes coming up on the icarsoft?. As Kiwi has already mentioned the intercooler and pipes theres not much else I can think of until you cover that. id run the van nice and hot and pull off the bottom pipe, that should get rid of any excess k-seal in the system. prob with the level of rust in it a flush wont do it any harm.


    Just adding i was reading at start of the thread again since its been a while from it started. forgot you had black death. I re-seated my injectors as a blow by will create a surface that the new copper washer will have bother sealing
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  18. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    If the injectors were not torqued correctly would this cause such a drastic loss in power. It just feels really lazy. Its blowing white smoke on acceleration now not black any more.

    Things to note,
    When I had the wrong injectors in it was blowing lots of black smoke and if I put hand by exhaust you could feel bits hitting your hand. Not sure if that was fuel being fired out or some other crap either way to get there it must have gone through the dpf (I assume that's whats behind the turbo and it's not just a cat) then through the cat so can't have done either any good. Blocked cat? Not sure how dpf's work, blocked/damaged?

    I tried to remove the egr but I just could not budge it. If it's this solid surely the insides are probably bunged up too? Any tricks to get this off?

    The icarsoft has the dpf function but says it isn't supported on this vehicle when I select it.
     
  19. LostKiwi

    LostKiwi Senior Member

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    White smoke is incomplete combustion and will probably reek of diesel.
    If the injectors aren't torqued correctly you could get a leak but you should be able to hear it chuffing if so.

    Incomplete combustion can be caused by low fuel pressure, bad injection timing, low compression or bad injectors.
    Given you've only replaced injectors and it was ok beforehand....
     
  20. OP
    rburnham11

    rburnham11 Member

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    Theres no chuffing from the injectors, there was so I know exactly what you mean but definitely no chuffing, at idle, I don't know if that would change under load?
    It wasn't like it before but it did sit for 2 or 3 years. I don't know if this would cause maybe the fuel filter to clog? I've cleared all the codes using icarsoft now to see what comes back, but there was loads of codes on there, 26 actually, but I think a lot of them were old ones before injector replacement, but 3 that stood out was something to do with egr, camshaft and low rail pressure. Like I said I've cleared them now, will drive it and see what comes back on.
     

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