intermittent starting probs ??

[c-class 280]

Can anyone offer me advice on what to do with the cars problem.Having had the car in the local trusted garage,but not a merc dealer today ,he has stated to me that the car has a transponder problem and it has to go to a mercedes dealership to have fixed.Some times it can take three or four attempts to get the car to start,yet other times it starts on the first attempt,could you please advise ?
Many thanks , a virgin C-Class 280 owner with only 26k on the clock :?
Olen .

 

[dieselman]

We need to know the age of the car to say what immobiliser it has.
Does it have a chrome ring around the ign. switch or does it have lights under the rear view mirror?

 

[c-class 280]

sorry for the lack of information.
The car is a November 1998 c- class 280 elegance.
It does not have lights under the mirror and if i remember rightly it does have a chrome ring around the ignition switch.
I say that cos i cannot park my car on the driveway,but in a garage 3 miles away as certain people cannot keep their hands off it.
the sensors for the alarm seem to be above the front seatbelt points near the front door pillars.Many thanks Olen. :?

 

[dieselman]

OK, Now we know that you have the MB infrared immobiliser with electronic key, we need to know what exacly happens when you get in the car, insert the key and then turn it.

Does the electric steering lock operate when you insert the key, if so does the engine turn over when you turn to start?

Have you tried the spare key?

If the steering lock operates the key has been authenticated, the immobiliser is de-activated at ignition on.
If the car then fails to start it could be due to the gearbox neutral safety switch being faulty.

When this happens do you hear the steering lock when you remove and re-insert the key.

The system will hold codes for any incompatabilities between key, ignition lock and engine control.

 

[c-class 280]

??

Thankyou for giving me advice dieselman,I'm working all this weekend,my next day off is on Tuesday 4/2/03,i'll get over to the car and try the spate key. and i'll let you know.
When i put the ignition key in and turn it,i'ts like blackpool illuminations,
really it just clicks very much like the starter motor is faulty,turn off try again,sometimes she'll fire up sometimes not.
My problem is i'm used to fords and vauxhall and i'm still fasinated with the dashboard lighting up. :lol:
Really i'll post another message after i have been to the car on tuesday and let you know.Again thankyou for the advice so far,brilliant.

 

[c-class 280]

ah reply

well after visiting the car to try with the spare key to start it,exactly the same problem.Just as if the starter motor is going.Today Saturday 8/02.
She used all the juice in the battery and had to re-charge it before trying to start her again,which time she fired up first time.AH i thought it's the battery,off i went to the shops and after being parked up for only could of been 3 minutes,she was a bitch to start again.Any how i have booked it into a garage in Beaconfield,which has been recommended to by another mb owner to have a diagnostic check done,which will hopefully find the fault.So if anyone see's a metalic blue c-class 280 parked up on the m40 between jnc 1-3 , give me a wave. :lol:
Thanx for the advice so far diesel man,but i am fed up of funny looks every time i try to start the car.
I'll let you know how i go on.Olen

 

[dieselman]

If you managed to flatten the battery it sounds like the starter is engaging and at least trying to start.

Does the engine turn over at normal speed or slowly when it wont start.

My money now goes on the starter or possibly some battery / wiring fault.

Any competant mechanic or auto electrician should be able to sort this out.

Only three things to know.

1/ Battery voltage before and during start.
2/ Is there full voltage to starter motor / solenoid.
3/ does engine turn at full speed.

It could be that the solenoid is siezing due to water damage then lack of use!

 

[c-class 280]

t.b.c

Hello dieselman,took the car along to a place called V.T.Wheels of Beaconfield,printed the information the you gave and give it them,thanx
The car had a diagnostic check and all shown well.I hd to leave the car their and endure a 2 hour journey back to await a phone call.It's now 20.45 on Monday night and still no call.i can only assume that it is not been sorted ,will let you know of the outcome.Olen

 

[Koolvin]

Hey mate, where in Heathrow are you?

 

[Andy]

Hi Ya

Had a M class with similar problems. Took us a while to sort it. Turned out to be the TDC sensor. 3.2 V6


Hope this helps.

Regards

Andy @ www.mercedesservicing.com

 

[c-class 280]

reply

Koolvin,at the moment i live near the armed tanks !!!Burglary rate has suddenly taken a rapid decline in our area.I wonder why !
Had the car in to a place called V.T.Wheels in Beaconsfield,they said to me that they took the starter motor out and it was ok,but the thing called the RING { ANY IDEAS ? } Had rusted up and jammed.The total cost and their words is £170.00 , the reason they gave for the high cost was for the labour charge.I cannot pick the car up until tomorrow ,thursday,due to work commitments,i'll let you all know of what i think.To be honest if it is working well, it's a small cost to pay.Again Gents and maybe Ladies,thanks for all of your advice.olen

 

[dieselman]

The "ring" is normally the ring gear on the flywheel. They probably mean the pinnion on the starter motor.

They would not fit a new ring gear for £170.

 

[fuzzer]

I had this problem on my C240 when i first got it.

Dealer lubed the started motor with " magic" MB grease and hey presto, car starts every time now. Cost £20 and well worth it whatever they did.


Does it start ok cold and then once its been on take a few turns to start again ? thats what mine did.

 

[c-class 280]

reply

Just got my car back from vt.wheels of Beaconsfield website www.wheelslimited.com This is what is exactly on the bill.

Vehicle not starting
removed starter motor,greased ring gear,replaced starter motor
{ ring gear too dry }
tested starter motor
tested
cleared all fault codes in system
checked operation of windows & reset limits

Labour £164.00
vat £28.70
total £ 192.70

Please correct me if i am wrong,but it does seem alot of motor for a bit of grease and to check the brand new starter motor that he fitted only 6 months ago.
I know and i realised that when i purchased my first mercedes,cost would be higher than my previous fords and vauxhalls,but f**king hell.£192.70 for a couple of mil of grease.Does the grease come from the rare albino ding bat from the island of wonga wonga? if so i can understand the cost involved.
System check and reset all faults? whats that about,nothing else was wrong,windows checked and reset,again all four electric windows worked well.
Whats the cost when some thing really goes wrong ?
I'm sorry.but i'm a bit annoyed at the moment,and i want my Vectra back.
Olen :twisted:

 

[piestore]

starter

Hi

Sorry to hear about your problems. There was a problem that required the starter ring gear to be greased and this is a special grease developed and avialable only through MB and it is quite labour intensive to apply correctley(1 hour). What worries me is that your symptoms don't seem to fit this fault. This only applied to DAS 3 cars ( not a real key more like a lego brick that you plug into the switch) and the dry ring gear caused the starter to dissengage prematurly and on engaging the starter you got a noise similar to squeeling chalk on a black board.

Has it solved the problem?? If all is Ok and work was done by MB dealer ask them to ESKU as this is a known fault and you may get a refund.

Good Luck

 

[c-class 280]

It cured the fault as far as driving it back from Beaconsfield.I went to the car yesterday,it's in a rented garage three miles away, and the battery was flat.Having had he battery on charge overnight i am going to put it back on this afternoon,we'll see then.I still think i have been overcharged.
The key for the ignition is a lego brick,i did not get a winding noise just a click very much like a starter motor problem i have had previosly,although having never owned a mb before i have to rely more on advise from garages rather than my own basic knowledge on mechanics.
The true test will come tomorrow, as i am driving to Belgium,if it breaks down there i will have to learn another language very quickly.[ i can order beer in french,that's it. } What's Belgium for the car is f***ed,i might need it.
I'll post another if and when i get back.olen.
C class 280 elegance.

 

[dieselman]

lucky for you Belgians speak three languages, English, Flemish and French!
All are taught at school as compusary subjects.

Makes you feel a bit ignorant really.

 

[c-class 280]

Never made it to Belgium in the mb,instead used an omega,very nice !!!
It had turned out that my battery had also developed a fault , which i think should of been picked up.Anyway £67.00 bosch silver battery from German and Swedish seemed to of sorted the problem out,touch wood.
:lol: Will post some photo's soon,after i have cleaned it.
Thanks for all of your help,olen, c-class 280 elegance