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Is daily classic ownership for me?

Discussion in 'General Mercedes-Benz Related Discussion' started by richyba, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    Location:
    Ireland
    Your Mercedes:
    1978 T1 307D,2005 Slk200K,1982 300DSLC (honest!) & 1994 410d Camper
    First of all i have to say that I'am loving the W210 still, just passed our dreaded NCT with no issues but I have to say the bills connected with car ownership in our lovely country are getting me down a little.

    I operate the W210 on a Limo licence as we also run coaches but really in some ways I'am forced into it as the private tax is horrendous here even on a 220 but the sting on that is the insurance for hire and reward of Eu1,000.00 but road tax only Eu88.00 so really it might as well be a Limo. Truth is we dont really get much work for the car and it is hard to justify the costs as there are plenty of S classes at silly money for the boys that are seriously into Limo work. I have just tested the old beast and insured it for another year but I'am seriously thinking of looking at a classic.

    The advantages to classic (over 30 years) ownership here are huge, cheap tax and insurance etc but my thought is could I live with a W123 after the W210? My plan is possibly to look at doing a diesel conversion myself (I know a fella selling a rusty but mechanically sound 300D).

    The good lady owns a SLK200 and we tend to use that for runs where luggage is not a consideration so the old beast would be for runs to UK and a bit of parts collection etc. Before anyone suggests a petrol they are really not in my religion as a workhorse being a bus man and a massive 410D enthusiast.

    Anyone any thoughts or contemplated something similar? There are a couple of W116 conversions for sale at the moment but I do love the idea of W123 ownership and I have driven them in the past and loved them.:confused:
     
  2. brianbrian

    brianbrian Senior Member

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    cockney in the West Country
    Your Mercedes:
    w124 250D, SL129-deisel
    Hi I would go for a 124 or 190 diesel with the 250d engine, 45mpg will keep up with modern cars, engines known to do over 500000 simple to service .Hope this helps
     
  3. syncropaddy

    syncropaddy Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    .... too many cars!
    You are aware of course, that using a vehicle - any vehicle - for private use must be taxed as a private vehicle. Using your W210 privately on Limo tax is illegal.
    In answer to your question, using a classic car and the cost benefits of running one is a concession to classic car fans and because of people who use classics as daily drivers will give even more weight to those who want this concession removed.
    Pay your car tax like the rest of us!
     
  4. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    Your Mercedes:
    1978 T1 307D,2005 Slk200K,1982 300DSLC (honest!) & 1994 410d Camper
    Thanks for that, I have yet to hear of anyone being done for using a Limo for private use, it really would seem to be stupid to encourage the use of another car on our roads but our lovely rulers are capable of anything these days.

    As for paying Eu1,600.00 per year to tax a car that will be used fairly rarely it just doesnt make sense so its either a classic or use the faithful camper, now go on tell me that cannot be used for any business activety. It as a good job that there was a slightly more rebelious mind set here in 1916 or was it??
     
  5. kth286

    kth286 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    E320 Coupe 95
    I thought the responses you got there a bit 'rough'.

    If you were to subscribe to the official mercedes club, you would find that Ireland has
    a very strong band of 123 followers.

    I would pay your £33 (or whatever) and join.

    You will get a lovely monthly mag showing all regions motoring activities, including
    useful technical articles in the forum archives etc etc, including real live parts data-
    base facility.
     
  6. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    Your Mercedes:
    1978 T1 307D,2005 Slk200K,1982 300DSLC (honest!) & 1994 410d Camper
    Before my last comment is taken as the ramblings of some mad republican I must add that I was born in England and have operated my own business here for 15 years now its just rules and taxation are honestly starting to drive me mad. I appreciate syncros point but is I were to follow the law and keep the Limo I would then need a van (which couldn't be used privately either) for the running around and parts collecting driver reliefs etc. Then a Limo (only for business). Finally a private car (which would be taxed at the stupid private rate) Seems like a fairly green solution to me!

    Just to add to my woes I hold zero no claims for a private policy (even though we have ran coaches for 15 years with only 2 very minor claims) So if i were to get anything interesting and modern or for that matter tax the 220 private the insurance will be crazy if I can even get cover!
     
  7. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    1978 T1 307D,2005 Slk200K,1982 300DSLC (honest!) & 1994 410d Camper
    Thought it was just me thinking that! Thanks for that info, I'am seriously thinking of going for this 300D as a donor and looking for a structurally good petrol (if they exist!) and building my own 123 - does that make sense?
     
  8. brandwooddixon

    brandwooddixon Senior Member

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    I can't comment about road tax, but you could convert an older model's power plant to a newer diesel, just remember to change the fuel filler port. One of our members put a diesel into an SL and forgot to do that, interesting times when he first came to fill it up.

    The only problem with running any classic is day-to-day differences in performance and comfort.

    I don't mean speed when I mention performance, but more importantly braking performance, which with some classics can leave a lot to be desired.
     
  9. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    Why not run a classic as a daily...get a good one and it will probably be more reliable and more comfortable/softer ride/feel better than a W210 anyway...which can be more important in a daily driver or on long trips than the dynamics/speed you'll get from the W210. I don't think you'll have problems adjusting, as for brakes the W123s had abs i think and i'm sure they are more than adequate, particularly if you drive it knowing this.

    As for the tax implications, good for you. If they let you pay less tax on a 30yr old vehicle then buy one of those. If the government is after extra taxation from rule benders/evaders it's about time they started going after the big corporations and the wealthy with their complex loopholes rather than attacks on the working population/middle class. If only everyone completely bent the rules and refused to pay RFL/insurance (another rip off) then these systems may be changed to benefit the population in a better way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  10. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    1978 T1 307D,2005 Slk200K,1982 300DSLC (honest!) & 1994 410d Camper
    Thanks for your support and comments about taxation, just in case anyone thinks I'am exaggerating the problem i have done some homework and to insure the 220 would be approx Eu700.00 and to tax private Eu885.00 so as it stands it makes sense to operate as a Limo (yes, and risk the consequences!)

    But I'am seriously tempted to go down the road of the W123 300D and seek out a suitable petrol to convert, the E220 is taxted, tested and plated for a year now so I can have a think and of course enjoy the delights of the bosses SLK for any private journeys as I'am a very good citizen:rolleyes:
     
  11. w124nut

    w124nut Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    By the way, the W123s were fitted with abs as an optional extra. Both my W123s were abs-less!

    Still on the W123 topic, what you may not pay in taxes, you will more than likely pay in upkeep of a car that is over 30 years old, thus enhancing the local economy and government purse in vat.

    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  12. Richard Elliot

    Richard Elliot Senior Member

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    1999 E270CDi
    You will be seriously surprised at the technological advances made between the 123 and the 210, those old non-turbo diesels are right slugs. even the 5 cylinder 300D has only 80 bhp.

    If you are going to get one, why convert a petrol instead of buying a diesel in the first place?

    As far as road tax goes, in holland its even worse, a big diesel would cost around 1500 euros a year. they also have a tax-free scheme for anything over 25 years old, which has brought about an interesting number of classics in daily use, as well as all the garages/parts/clubs etc needed to keep them going.
     
  13. syncropaddy

    syncropaddy Senior Member

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    .... too many cars!
    May I suggest you read your newspapers then. There are many cases of commercially taxed vehicles being stopped and checked and prosecutions being made. I don't know which part of the country you're in but it is rife on the East coast.

    You said it yourself .... camper tax is for campers not private or commercial vehicles.

    To anyone else who is reading this thread and does not live in the Republic of Ireland it might be difficult to understand exactly the implications of what the OP is trying to do. Many many people over here do what the OP is trying to do but that does not make it right or legal.
    Driving a commercially taxed vehicle for private use is illegal. End of.
    Driving a classic vehicle availing of the tax relief designated to vehicles of 30 years and over is technically illegal too. There is nothing to stop anyone driving one of these vehicles if the full road tax is paid. This is the only concession our car hating governmemt has given us and they are currently arguing that we shouldnt have it. Having loads of people abusing this only concession by driving classics as daily drives is feeding those that want to remove this concession!

    The OP suffers the same problems as regards rules and taxation as the rest of us and its going to get tougher. And like the rest of us, there are two options we can take .... live with it or like the lucky ones..... get out.

    Im living with it.

    Rant over
     
  14. tode

    tode Senior Member

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    Come to France, then -- no road tax and cheaper diesel :D
     
  15. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    Or just ignore and bend the rules a little in his favour. I don't even know the penalties or what's involved but as the OP's "schemes" aren't harming anyone what's the problem. I'm not going to decry him for reducing his tax a bit, big corporations seem to do it so why can't he??...and similarly if he gets caught and his car crushed i'm not going to sympathise with him. Either way it's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but his minor issue, not ours!
     
  16. Rockall

    Rockall Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    Many
    More 124's

    Interesting debate so far.

    Last week I went to buy a 124 300D multivalve as a donor for the intended diesel conversion of my 124 320 coupe.
    Euro 450.00 later I had a beautiful 124 automatic with leather and the best puller of all the ones I have driven - engine seems so lively. Spent the week-end thinking about it and this morning I paid €375.00 for 12 months insurance - it is far too good to scrap so it now joins the 124 fleet which seems to be growing around the house. Of course I still need a donor car:)

    Granted road tax will be €1390/annum but I will have a car with fantastic engineering and it will run on cooking oil at €1.20/litre.

    I did look into the 30 year rule - vintage class - which gives you NO annual test (NCT) !! and an annual road tax of €52/annum. You can combine this with classic car insurance, BUT, you must have another car as your main car and cannot use the vintage for everyday use - max 5200 miles/annum.

    It is all about what type of car and modern day options and luxuries you think you need. Take my newest car above as an example - basically on the road taxed and insured for a year for €2215. I will be spending approx €300 getting it right - balljoints, gearbox fluid and filter and engine oil and filters. €6 or €7/day for a piece of solid engineering - hard to beat that.

    Regards
    Bill
     
  17. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    Thanks for that I consider myself justly put right at the appalling frauds that I'am trying to get away with here, it makes Anglo Irish look trivial!

    As one of my favourite bands The Levellers very neatly put it:

    "There's only one way of life,
    And thats your own"

    Now lets talk cars not politics and by the way my septic tank is illegal and my household charge unpaid I really must learn to be a better citizen and join the system but somehow I cant bring myself to - and on that bombshell - goodnight!
     
  18. OP
    richyba

    richyba Active Senior Members

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    Thanks for that Bill, thats an amazing buy, I have noticed a couple of W116 s with 300 engines fitted and that idea quite appeals to me but being a spanner man I still have a hankering for building "my" very own W123. I have a year to think about it I suppose as my E220 is legal(ish) for another year now.
     
  19. Rockall

    Rockall Senior Member

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    There are a good few 126 and even 140 around with diesel engine conversions - Ned Kelly in Castlecomer is the man - he converted quite a few and still does. I have driven a few and find that you do need the multi valve 300 diesel engine (OM 606 ) as opposed to the OM 603 - those cars are very heavy. Ned used to fit a turbo to the 603 some years ago.

    Viewed and drove this last week - didnt buy.:http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4123490
    It does have the 606 engine fitted.

    Bill
     
  20. syncropaddy

    syncropaddy Senior Member

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    When you can do it like that it makes you wonder why the OP cant. I have an E220 W124 here that cost €3000 on the road, taxed, VRT'd and insured when it had 55K on the clock! Most W123's left over here are rust buckets anyway so how the OP is going to get something half decent together and modified at anything like the money you and I have spent remains to be seen.
     

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