I've decided to get my E350 M272 engine rebuilt.

steveq

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Sounds good to me too.

What's your plan for removing the engine?
 
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Conor

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Sounds good to me too.

What's your plan for removing the engine?

I'm currently renting a place where I am totally restoring a Clio 172 Cup track car. There shall be enough spacr for me to spend a weekend taking out engine and another putting it back in.

Just need to figure getting an engine crane and load leveller.

There is a forklift in the unit so I might get away with a load leveller and attach it to fork.
 

malcolm210

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This could turn into a very interesting thread when the rebuild starts. Count on costs escalating +20% they always do when you are dealing with the unknown
 
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Conor

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This could turn into a very interesting thread when the rebuild starts. Count on costs escalating +20% they always do when you are dealing with the unknown

20% isn't bad.. judging by my Clio build.. things got wayyyyy out of hand LMAO. Then again that is down to tooling mainly and good quality stuff that should last longer than me hopefully.

But yea - an interesting build. I'll try and keep in with the guy doing the work so I can get a few detailed photos etc.

The costs are broken down into 3 categories that I can see.

1. Parts - relatively known, as I can price them up now.
2. Replacing consumables.. - Such as oil, coolant etc Relatively unknown but low cost in the grand scheme of things.
3. Labour.. I ball hopped him for price asking €2,3,4k - He said you will get a lot done for 2k, so let's see how that goes.
 

LostKiwi

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My local engineer skims heads for £40 each. £2k is therefore a lot of work done!
 

steveq

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Very good.
That sounds like a great setup you have.

I presume that the engine comes out the top?
I saw a video recently where the mechanic removed the engine by leaving it attached to the front subframe and disconnecting the subframe including all the suspension, brake pipes, etc. from the body and lifting the body up on the car hoist.
 

LostKiwi

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On his it will come out the top.

Some cars have to go out the bottom with the subframe. Typically rear engined and mid engined cars will go out the bottom .

Original minis will go either way though in my opinion out the top is quicker.
 

malcolm210

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Good luck with it Conor should be a very interesting build from the rebuilders point of view as well, quite a lump and 4 valves per cylinder. Don’t be tempted to tune the old girl though
 

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The powered lift you have available (forklift) is a great advantage and a super confidence builder. So long as you can secure the engine okay/safely when removing/re-installing that's a heck of a lot of weight off your shoulders (sorry... pun intended just for fun)!

Just keep at it in good temper Conor and you'll come out a real winner! The really great thing is that if problems arise there's a terrific resource for advice and guidance if you need anything - right here!
 

steveq

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On his it will come out the top.

Some cars have to go out the bottom with the subframe. Typically rear engined and mid engined cars will go out the bottom .

Original minis will go either way though in my opinion out the top is quicker.
Yes, I knew about mid & rear engined cars --e.g. Porsche 911, etc.

The video was for a Mercedes C220 CDI OM651 and the job was to renew the camchain & sprockets. I was surprised but the mechanic seemed to know what he was doing.
 

d215yq

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Very different engine but I had exactly the same on my w124 (huge cloud of smoke after booting it after idling a long time and general misfire. Also on over 200k at the time.

Diagnosed as head gasket and stem seals. So new seals, skim and head gasket was done in local garage all in in the UK for 900 pounds. And I didn't do anything. I know you've got two heads and a more complex engine but if it's most likely stem seals could you not do that yourself or pay a garage a few hundred to do it and then run it to the ground? It's a huge leap from that to a 5k engine rebuild!
 
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Conor

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My local engineer skims heads for £40 each. £2k is therefore a lot of work done!

Interesting. I guess I don't really know much on pricing this up yet. But I'm going to contact a few other places around this end of the country and see what can be done.

You could spend a couple hundred euro getting this thing delivered to/from a remote business, and if there was only a couple hundred in the difference, i'd have no problem keeping it local. I should be able to pop in and get eyes on it when it's fully open too. I had previously floated the idea of getting a scrap engine from somewhere just to take it apart to see what it was like.. I may not have to now.

Very good.
That sounds like a great setup you have.

I presume that the engine comes out the top?
I saw a video recently where the mechanic removed the engine by leaving it attached to the front subframe and disconnecting the subframe including all the suspension, brake pipes, etc. from the body and lifting the body up on the car hoist.
Yea it's pretty decent here alright. They actually have a lift that they will be finishing the install of soon so if I want to drop it out the bottom with subframe, I should have that option too.

If you are ever in the area any weekend, please feel free to pay a visit. It's near the lake with a few nice places to see, you could make a day/weekend out of it :)

Good luck with it Conor should be a very interesting build from the rebuilders point of view as well, quite a lump and 4 valves per cylinder. Don’t be tempted to tune the old girl though
Thanks Malcom. I would say 90% of his work is agri/diesel cars so he is probably keen to get into this.

I don't have any interest in tuning this. It's already got more than enough poke as my daily driver :)

The powered lift you have available (forklift) is a great advantage and a super confidence builder. So long as you can secure the engine okay/safely when removing/re-installing that's a heck of a lot of weight off your shoulders (sorry... pun intended just for fun)!

Just keep at it in good temper Conor and you'll come out a real winner! The really great thing is that if problems arise there's a terrific resource for advice and guidance if you need anything - right here!
Thanks Dave.

Yea the forklift will be handy, I just remembered they are in the process of finishing off an actual lift install too, so if I want to drop it out the bottom that option is available.

Very different engine but I had exactly the same on my w124 (huge cloud of smoke after booting it after idling a long time and general misfire. Also on over 200k at the time.

Diagnosed as head gasket and stem seals. So new seals, skim and head gasket was done in local garage all in in the UK for 900 pounds. And I didn't do anything. I know you've got two heads and a more complex engine but if it's most likely stem seals could you not do that yourself or pay a garage a few hundred to do it and then run it to the ground? It's a huge leap from that to a 5k engine rebuild!

Interesting, yea I have the exact same.

I'm kind of caught on this. I mean on one hand, sure, it sounds like the valve seals alone, based on anything I read. But the local engine guy said that he has never seen stem seals solve oil burning on their own. He says it's most often rings too.

..And this is the clincher. He made the point that I will spend at least a day each putting the engine in and out. Wouldn't it be a pain to still have the same problem after doing the seals. So for a bit more cash you can rebuild a lot more of the engine and have total confidence.

I don't think this will be a 5k rebuild. I plan on keeping this car another 10 years or so, so an extra 1 or 2k isn't massive, if that makes sense?


It's currently looking at approximately £3k all in, so far. I have specc'd a few extra engine parts i'm not sure I need so might be able to bring down.

Actually, here is a list I currently have.

Rocker arms are pricey - not sure they are needed? Same goes for valves. I also don't think I will need new springs or keepers.

I don't see the valve guides listed in EPC/WIS unless I missed them.. and from looking up the parts I don't seem them under any of the names below :/

I need to check, check, double check and re-check the parts list before ordering.

Am I right in saying the water pump will need doing as it will bent when removing from block? I don't think I will need a new pump consider it has strong pressure (demonstrated by a recent mishap*)

Feel free to comment on other parts I don't need and save me a few quid :)

Part Number -- Description -- Quantity
A2720161520Head gasket left
1​
A2720161620Head gasket right
1​
A2760160069Head bolt left
8​
A2760160069Head bolt right
8​
A2722001001Water pump
1​
A2721800701Oil pump
0​
Coolant
Valves
A2720500226Intake valve left
0​
A2720500226Intake valve right
0​
A2720501527Exhaust valve left
0​
A2720501527Exhaust valve right
0​
A0000535158TS Sealing left - set
3​
A0000535158TS Sealing right - set
3​
A2720530025Spring retainer exhaust
12​
A2720530125Spring retainer intake
12​
A2760530025Valve spring retainer left
12​
A2760530025Valve spring retainer right
12​
A2720530620Valve spring exhaust left
6​
A2720530620Valve spring exhaust right
6​
A2720530720Valve spring inlet left
6​
A2720530720Valve spring inlet right
6​
A0000531126Conical valve keeper left
24​
A0000531126Conical valve keeper right
24​
A2720500133Rocker arm left
12​
A2720500133Rocker arm right
12​
A6420500080Compensating element left
12​
A6420500080Compensating element right
12​
Chain Drive
A0009930676Roller chain
1​
A2720521316Slide rail (Clamping rail)
1​
A2720520016Slide rail bottom left
1​
A2720521216Slide rail top left
1​
A2720520216Slide rail top right
1​
A2720500811TS Chain tensioner
1​
A1660520074Pin Sliding rail to cylinder head
1​
Timing chain kit (Includes all above ex. Pin sliding rail)
1​


* Mishap - I serviced my car. After 1k miles, oil blew out through the o ring on the filter housing which I had incorrectly installed. Oil went everywhere and the belt flew off the engine, surrendering power steering. Smoke everywhere. Luckily I was able to pull over immediately.

Power washed engine, new belt, filter and topped up oil. I think I lost about 2/2.5 litres of oil. Close call!
 

d215yq

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To be fair I had the same dilemma and had no diagnosis or estimate until it was taken apart. No idea of exact cost breakdown but after a few hours labour once the head was removed the rings/pistons were declared "as new" and the work defined and priced up immediately. I can't see how it's all failed at the same time or all worn... there will more likely be one (or two) failure points and the rest as new or 95 percent of life left. My w124 did 110k miles after the seals/gasket/skim (to 310k miles) and is now sorn with engine still working perfectly and not a single other engine problem or excessive oil loss in that period.
 
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Conor

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To be fair I had the same dilemma and had no diagnosis or estimate until it was taken apart. No idea of exact cost breakdown but after a few hours labour once the head was removed the rings/pistons were declared "as new" and the work defined and priced up immediately. I can't see how it's all failed at the same time or all worn... there will more likely be one (or two) failure points and the rest as new or 95 percent of life left. My w124 did 110k miles after the seals/gasket/skim (to 310k miles) and is now sorn with engine still working perfectly and not a single other engine problem or excessive oil loss in that period.

Yea so that's the thing... I absolutely do not believe that the rings are gone as well as the stem seals. I mean it's still only 200k miles. While high.. it's not mental and to be fair to MB, aren't these engines supposed to be strong?

While that is said, it shouldn't take a huge amount of extra work to pull the pistons and change the rings, which shouldn't break the bank for the parts.
 
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