Losing the love for my Benz Already.....

[Cheltenhamshire]

....I have had my 2003 Merc C200KSE Sport Coupe for 1 year and 14,000 miles now and am seriously falling out of love.

In this year the parcel shelf has broken, the rear number plate lights have been on the blink (dealer replaced the whole housing) and periodically the light sensor (auto lights) keeps telling me it is not working (only for me to switch off and then back on again, problem solved) and once the car told me the alternator had packed up (again Microsoft style, off and then on and never said it since).....my experience with the stealers has been pretty bad and very expensive.....£350 for service B + £150 for brake pads ....with another £300 coming for the mot and service A.

Also my weekly drive is 12 miles round trip at an average of 30mph to work plus 1 230 mile round trip on the M4 to London a week yet my car is only getting 10,000 miles between services on Mobil 1.

Frankly for the money a Honda Accord is nicer inside, more reliable, rides better, handles better, costs a fortune less to service and seems a very attractive car to me at the moment.

Am I missing something here??

 

[littlebrooklyn]

My experience of having a Mercedes for just 8 mths was that they are the most beautiful car inside and out. You cannot beat the comfort of being in a Mercedes, it really is second to none in my opinion.

On the minus side of course is the fact that they are very expensive to maintain, as are most prestige cars really. I don't think the stealerships are particularly helpful either and they charge an arm and a leg for servicing.

I also found it very hard to drive around town in our Mercedes, it really was too big for just town driving and a pain to park. We now have a Golf GT TDi and I can honestly say it's much more practical and much more fun to drive, but the comfort factor is pretty low compared to the Mercedes.

 

[Rory]

...my experience with the stealers has been pretty bad and very expensive.....£350 for service B + £150 for brake pads ....with another £300 coming for the mot and service A.

That's cheap for a B service - it's normally £450.

Also my weekly drive is 12 miles round trip at an average of 30mph to work plus 1 230 mile round trip on the M4 to London a week yet my car is only getting 10,000 miles between services on Mobil 1.

Is that 6 miles in the morning, then 6 miles in the evening? If so, that's a lot of cold starts, short journeys, low speed. It will shorten your service interval.

Frankly for the money a Honda Accord is nicer inside, more reliable, rides better, handles better, costs a fortune less to service and seems a very attractive car to me at the moment.

So buy an Accord then.
I'm with littlebrooklyn - we have a Jazz and I use that around town, the Merc is only normally used for long (150-400 mile) journeys when I go and visit customers, or on high days & holidays.

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

I've owned MB's for 14 years now. I must admit my admiration of the engineering that goes into the marque has been slightly diluted but not diminished by some of the problems with the latest models.

However the MB experience is quite unique and minor issues like the ones you've suffered I am prepared to take in my stride because the overall experience is so good.

I'm sure that some people on the forum have owned MB for a lot longer than I have and have seen more changes, not all for the best.

The move by MB towards mass marketing has produced numerous models with different specifications. I know that if I bought the sport version of a car I would expect the suspension to be firm and with 17 in wheels firmer still.

As for japanese alternatives, good for short term ownership only

Hope things improve for you!

 

[OlafMaxwell]

Yes, it's a Mercedes but I can assure you I had exectly the same kind of problems when the car was new...and Merc still charged to repair them. Everything in their book is wear and tear.....funny though if you buy Japanese or many other mkes they dont suffer 'wear and tear' to anything like the same extent and thier dealers are much quicker to fix them.

I stay driving the Merc but rather than buy a new one that will fall apart when you sneeze or go over a bump I choose to keep the current one.

 

[philharve]

As for japanese alternatives, good for short term ownership only.

Well, I kept my Toyota Celica on the road for 17 years and it was far and away the most reliable car I have ever owned. It was comfortable, frugal, fast and fun. It was comparatively cheap to run and maintain too. It was good looking and in my opinion the best looking of the Celicas.

It was the rapidly deteriorating metalwork, both inside and out, and a serious engine fault that finally made me decide to send it to car heaven.

I knew a Mercedes would be a more expensive proposition to run than a Toyota and it 'was' my belief an M-B could easily outlast a Japanese car. I still believe this to be true. That's why I bought one ... I don't change my cars very often.

But Japanese cars are improving all the time and reliability is first rate. It is my impression that M-B seem to be headed in a downward direction.

Touch wood, my Mercedes has suffered none of the problems reported by other members in over a year of ownership. If this reliability continues then I will have little to complain about. The bodywork will need periodic attention but I am resigned to this as a consequence of owning a relatively new model.

Insurance is cheaper than for the Toyota and the fuel consumption can be better than the Toyota if driven with restraint.

Servicing and parts won't be cheap but hopefully I won't need many of them.

My view of M-B has been tarnished and I don't hold the marque in such high esteem as I once did. However, there is 'something' about a Mercedes that seems to be more than the sum of its parts.

REGARDS Phil

 

[malcolm E53 AMG]

You would get a pleasant surprise with the Toyota Phil after owning a Dolly Sprint. I owned one for 12 years or so, that was a volatile relationship.lol.

Some fond memories though!

Good diff, braking system and cylinder head (unbreakable 16v, pity the head gasket wasn't)

 

[jberks]

Everyone has their view. Mine is that the Accord is a lovely car and will remain so until...oh there's a new one out thats very nice. They are reliable, quite comfortable and have a nice feel and ... ah they've changed it again ....

The point is that Hondas are very good on paper but date like bananas. One minute you have the latest shiny new one, the next you're driving around in an old banger. Still very reliable and cheap to run, but dated.
They are consumer goods, like washing machines or TV's, perfectly suited to the market, cheap(ish) to run, reliable, dependable but somehow soulless at the same time. Mercs grow old gracefully. Old 124's still turn heads and have a timeless class about them, 10 year old hondas are generally battered taxi cabs.

I fully agree however, sit on a Honda and a Merc and you may feel that the honda has it. All I would say, is sit in a 5 year old one of each. As good as they are, they don't age as well.

As far as repair/cost is concened. Your faults are minor but I agree damned annoying. The electronics are not trouble free but most faults can be rectified if the tech knows what he's doing. Your service interval, given the short nature of the journeys I have to say sound fair enough to me. That said, as it's out of warranty, if you don't agree with the computer, ignore it.

Now to the hub of it I suspect. Most issues can be tolerated if you feel the dealer is on your side, actively sorting it and not viewing you as a walking credit card.
The prices charged by dealers are just plain silly and their service is not up to an acceptable standard on far too many occasions. But thats why my lovely 15 month old E class isn't going to the dealer for its next service. It will be going to the local MB specialist who will do a better job and charge me half the price. They look after me, don't charge by the footstep and know what they are talking about. If I want a wiper blade, the dealer wants to book me in for 3 weeks time and charge me £50. I walk into the specialist, it's "Fred, still a wiper rubber on that e class, and see you later. Cost? oh we'll sort that out next time you're in...(never happens)" I suspect if you find a good indie, you relationship with your car will improve dramatically.

 

[Jensen]

I can understand your thinking however and must admit I feel like that at times.
Lets face it you pay top dollar for a Merc that is perceived to at the top of its marque. It should be reliable, dependable and always enjoyable to own. That pointed star should represent quality.
Now lets all take the rose coloured glasses off for a bit, and hey I think it falls way short.
Admit problems do occur but sorry not to the extent tha they are.

 

[jberks]

I keep coming back to the same thing. We all demand the solidity and reliability of a W124 but we aren't prepared to pay what they cost, want all the latest gadgets, want lower weight and better handling and MPG into the bargain.

Are they a bit flaky in places? yes.
Is this acceptable? - not really.
Are they improving? - I believe so. An 06 is way better than an 02.
Remember this is a 3 year old car and the faults, whilst annoying are minor. Spurious warnings - possibly related to the battery problems on 03 Cs?. The tail light - well its only a bit of plastic, something of a one off and replaced.

I was passed by a new £30k Audi this morning with it's reversing lights blazing away. Modern cars are complicated and unlike the old mechanical systems, software faults are harder to predict at design time. Switches play up, sensors give spurious readings. Perhaps being a 'IT techie' I accept these things as inevitable. If the car fails to start or stop, the windows won't go up or a problem re-occurs after being fixed twice already, or I have an A4 sheet full of issues then ok, but the odd niggle whilst annoying doesn't detract from the fact that to drive there is nothing I have driven, and I have driven a fair few motors, that feels like a merc does.

 

[littlebrooklyn]

We paid £18,000 for our 2 1/2yr old Mercedes last May and the first day we got it home we had to call out a technician, not just once but three times.

We then needed to get the supercharger replaced, thank goodness it was still under warranty or it would have cost us a fortune.

I think it's a shame they don't seem to live up their image any more but it does seem a lot of people have problems with them. Having said all that they are beautiful cars

 

[clive williams]

The problem with most modern cars is that we are getting more and more and more and.......ELECTRONIC GIMMICKS ladled into our cars so that they become more prone to failure and require degrees in electronic engineering to understand, let alone fix them, which MB fitters don't have. It is now too easy to rely on electronic diagnostics to fix things and far to easy to replace big lumps of kit than solve whats wrong with the kit in the first place. In that case its almost trading one fault for another in a new unit.
It was only yesterday that the RAC were warning of input overload from gizmos in cars preventing us from doing what we a supposed to do in a car - DRIVE THE B****Y THING!

As regards Japanese reliability. my only experience was a Toyota Carina E c1992, bought new as a company car and a complete DOG of a motor, which ranked only just above a VP Maestro that I inheirited. The stealers were patronising and mentally deficient, which put me off Toyota for life.

At least my Mercs have cudos and I'm willing to put up with their faults until something better comes along - although I can't think what at the moment until I don't need 4 doors/seats anymore.

Clive

500E
E320CDIT210

 

[Kwack]

The 'electronic gimmicks' are mostly intented to give mechanical components an easier time.. There is no excuse for any failure from a company of MBs experience. MB know how to do it right, they were leaders in reliability for many years. Manufacturers like Honda & Toyota get it right almost all of the time. I have run motorbikes as a primary form of transport for almost 20 years & the depth of engineering that Honda in particular apply to their products is impressive. I have recently got a 1991 W124 & there are a number of similarities between the way it is put together & my 1989 Honda Prelude.

Somebody at MB in the mid '90s probably said something like ' we can leverage the perception of quality that surrounds our brand to increase profits'.. but as this forum demonstrates they did not point out that this will at some stage catch up if they don't continue to invest in quality. Mr Honda was reputed to have said that' the product never lies' .. some truth in this I think.

K

 

[littlebrooklyn]

The problem with most modern cars is that we are getting more and more and more and.......ELECTRONIC GIMMICKS ladled into our cars so that they become more prone to failure and require degrees in electronic engineering to understand, let alone fix them, which MB fitters don't have.
E320CDIT210

I couldn't agree more, it's got way too confusing these day

 

[Cheltenhamshire]

Well thanks for all the feedback people! I do like a lot of aspects and features of my car, principally the great engine & gearbox combination, fast enough for me and 25mpg in town with 36-40mpg on the motorway. I like the seats which are comfortable and I like the image of having a Benz. People say it is for old men, well not in the naughties!! Merc's are for cruising around in and looking 'understated', the reputation for quality shines through and I like that. What is annoying me is the stealers (I think almost all dealers and mechanics really get to me, I can't stand them...mainly because as I suspect I have never met one I can trust) and the costs of running the thing, £300+ for a ****** oil change and plugging in a laptop.....does that really take 3 hours? Of course not...rip off!! I have booked my car into the expensive independant (County Merc) and after that I will either sell it for the Honda (I think a lot of opinions of Japanese cars on here is a little dated, the new Accord really is an awesome bit of kit for the money) or use Hansa (another indie down the road from my work) as recommended by someone on this site now the car will be out of warranty. There are a lot of good things about my car but the bad things are really getting to me when I am driving what is 'the best car in the world'.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[flyingtech55]

The alternative to giving large lumps of wedge to stealerships for servicing is to service it yourself. I bought a 190E ('92) four years ago. It gets an oil and filter change every 5000 miles. Plugs every 10,000 and air and fuel filter every 20,000 miles.

Everything else, brakes, discs, springs, wishbones etc as required. 5000 mile service costs about £25.00; add £10.00 for the 10,000 miler and another £20 for the 20,000 one. However, I keep my cars for a very long time (unless some idiot totals it for me) so I'm not bothered about a documented service history.

Tim

 

[television]

I'm not bothered about a documented service history.

Tim[/QUOTE]

I am faced with the same thing, I print out the service work sheets, fill them in and keep all receipts. When they do come to be sold, the value is too low to influence price..

Re electrics, what is it coming to when your car will not start because the main brain thinks there is something wrong with your driving seat, Is this health and safety or what.

Malcolm

 

[johnmc]

(I think a lot of opinions of Japanese cars on here is a little dated, the new Accord really is an awesome bit of kit for the money)

I have to say I'm with you on the Accord. My brother has always run Hondas,
CRX and Accords over many years. Wouldn't buy anything else. Only complaint he ever had was a hole appeared in the exhaust of his CRX..!

All cars date, I don't think that Merc's look "timeless". The older ones look like three shoeboxes glued together. New models like the SL make the old one look hopelessly dated. Desirabilty for the badge at a lower price undoubtedly remains. I read one article where Merc's engineering chief was considering reducing the amount of technology in the cars to try and get defects reduced. Desperate stuff really...! You may have heard me grump about this before, but too much focus today is on time to market, not quality, and Merc is not the only one in this boat. The Japanese design process is also faster than we have in the West but it is anchored completely on quality. They end up able to produce reliable cars with the latest technology and the statistics show that they are at way better at it than the Western firms.

The Accord's final trump card is price. Compare an Accord Executive to a C-Class and spec up the C-class to be the same. Then smuggly pocket the 7 Grand change once you've bought the Accord. My brother does this to me, and it makes me grump even more...! Depreciation is exactly the same, so the C-class driver is flushing the cash big style for what advantage? I don't mean that we should always logically buy on price alone, but is the extra 7k buying what you wanted? Fancy badge or real differentiated engineering?

John

 

[angus falconer]

Frankly for the money a Honda Accord is nicer inside, more reliable, rides better, handles better, costs a fortune less to service

The quality of German cars is something of a myth. Honda and the other Japanes marques have been coming top of the heap in reliability surveys for most of the last decade or more.

A big part of the reason that people buy Merc's, Bimmer's, Audi's etc is because of the implied status. One of ther reasons I ended up going German was my wife's refusal to consider anything Japanese.

 

[Rory]

The Accord's final trump card is price. Compare an Accord Executive to a C-Class and spec up the C-class to be the same. Then smuggly pocket the 7 Grand change once you've bought the Accord. My brother does this to me, and it makes me grump even more...! Depreciation is exactly the same, so the C-class driver is flushing the cash big style for what advantage? I don't mean that we should always logically buy on price alone, but is the extra 7k buying what you wanted? Fancy badge or real differentiated engineering?
John

I looked seriously at Accord before buying my C270 - in fact i had a corporate demo diesel Exec for a week to try. It is very good - the engine is superb, BUT - no Auto, no Xenon lights, no trip computer (on a car used for business, that's ridiculous), no elec folding mirrors (again, ridiculous), no phone integration (they have added BlueTooth now, but you have to get Sat Nav). Fully elec seats - but no memory. Interior looks great with Sat Nav (at £1400 hardly any cheaper than the MB one, and it didn't work very well) but the dash looks 'orrible without it. Apparently it tramlines terribly if you have the 17" wheels. There was quite a lot of road noise at 70MPH. Fuel econony (on the diesels) varies a lot - many owners are only getting high 30's MPG, and it should be doing close to 50.