Merc R-Class Problem. P0016/P0017

[CDK1]

I bought a s/h one last year. 2006, 4x4, 6 seats, R350SE A, 60k miles, mainly to avoid taking two cars on family outings. Replacing my beautiful 2003 S-Class.
It is big and wide. Very comfortable, quiet smooth ride, lots of room inside, miles just glide by on the motorway.
Could have done without the tinted rear windows, as a bit of a challenge reverse parking in the dark even with the parktronic. Depends on how hard you drive, but found usually about 18mpg in town and 30mpg on motorway. Looks not bad, but need getting used to.
Then the honeymoon ended:
Recently got the engine management warning light. On and off for a few months; now on all the time. Gave it to Merc for investigation, came back with error codes P0016 and P0017 - "Constant adjustment of intake camshaft of right cylinder bank in direction of 'Retarded'." (in some vehicles it shows up as Code 1200 and 1208). Local Merc estimated around £4k to remove engine, investigate and replace effected parts - I won't quote what 'her indoors' said to that! (off the cuff advice from one mechanic was remove the bulb and sell it).
Googled the codes, found Mercedes World forums (in the US), a number of owners with similar problems - looks like problem with timing and worn sprockets on the balance shaft. This is due to substandard materials used in some of their models with this engine. MBUSA have issued an advisory how to repair it and the engine number range where it will appear (ours is in the range). However they have not issued a recall. They have helped some owners with part of the cost but appears they (at least MBUSA) have refused to accept responsibly. So some owners have actually paid the $7K in the US to get it done. There is also a class action suite in the US about it. Appears this is not due to wear and tear - it is due to faulty materials in production, they mention that after the engine range mentioned, the parts were replaced in new vehicles.
The vehicle still drives well and without the warning light one would never know of any problem, though am now worried that continued use may start damaging the valve seats, etc.
I wonder how many UK owners have been effected - as Merc seems to be keeping it quiet; though due to the rarity of the R-Class, our local guys have probably never heard about it. I wonder if it is worth reporting it to the BBC "Watch Dog" consumer program?
Perhaps I should mention this to our local dealer!
Anybody else had a similar problem - not only on the R-Class - its the engine used on various models.
Anybody have any suggestions?
I could link the websites/forums and MB Star advisory I found, but not sure if allowed here.
Any (helpful) comments and advice would be appreciated.

CDK1

 

[EmilysDad]

Sorry ... can't help directly as mine is a diseasal. Surely your petrol 350 engine is fitted to A N Other MB

Keep us posted

 

[Suki]

I have an R500, but have not heard about this, sorry
4K to fix seems very steep....!
goto an indie

 

[CDK1]

The Merc Star Bulletin dated 23 April 2009 states:

Applicable Models (Not Applicable to Model 164.156, 204 or 216.386): Equipped with M272 Engine Up to
Serial No. 2729..30 468993 or
M273 Engine Up to Serial No. 2739..30 088611.
The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.

 

[CDK1]

Merc knows which engines could be effected [2]

The Merc Star Bulletin dated 23 April 2009 states:

Quote>
Applicable Models (Not Applicable to Model 164.156, 204 or 216.386): Equipped with M272 Engine Up to
Serial No. 2729..30 468993 or
M273 Engine Up to Serial No. 2739..30 088611.
The material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past the serial numbers listed above.
<Unquote - my italics

Hence I feel that the last sentence implies Merc's responsibility as the original part as fitted was not up to standard and that Merc knows that vehicles within this range could sooner or later turn up with this fault - and they were instructing the workshop what to do about it.

In the US, MBUSA has paid part of the costs of some owners - probably the ones who shouted loudest, or even knew about it.

..

 

[ernieh]

Have a look on here, but I think somebody recently had a car transported to MBS in Southampton with that self-same problem, and got it sorted for half the cost that you've been quoted.

Might be worth a consideration; MBS are well recommended, although I've never used them as, being in Scotland, it is difficult to justify a trip that far south!

Pity that MB wouldn't play ball, though.


Ernie

 

[ernieh]

Just had a look and found the link; I'm sure they could help you.

Ernie

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=125589

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

This is a common issue on 272 engines from 2005-2007. This engine is not uniform to the R Class but is fitted across the range. Its not massively prevalent in this country as many purchase the V6 diesel instead, so it may not be as well known as some faults on other engines. It does not mean the problem isnt common though and it doesnt exist!!

Merc have contributed towards repairs in the past however their goodwill limit appears to stop when the car gets to 5 years old as it then can be considered "fair wear and tear". Weather you agree with that is for you to battle with MB about, after all you did buy the car "used" not new.

You do not need to strip the engine to confirm balance shaft wear, you just need to remove the cam sensors and time the engine up to 305' after TDC and see weather the timing marks line up. Takes about 10mins to do that. If they dont line up you know you have lost tension on the chain.

On the positive side most of us indies can sort the issue for around £2k inc VAT, maybe cheaper, which is half the dealer cost.

 

[buckalec66]

Hi,
Wondering how you got on with your fault codes, Poo16 and Poo17? Just bought a 2006 S350 and think I've been shafted! CEL hidden behind a sticker! Cleared codes but it keeps coming back.... Car runs lovely.... So still have some hope that it is just sensors.
Thanks

 

[CDK1]

Greetings buckalec66,
Sorry to hear about your problems - especially the sticker over the light - that really takes the biscuit - shows you can't take anything for granted these days. MB have used the same engine in a number of models and it appears that they have informed their US dealers (not sure of UK) about the fault.
I had a 2003 S350 and it was beautiful - with the problems with this R Class, I'm beginning to think I should have kept it.

Like yours, my R Class ran apparently normally, even with engine light on - had it not been for the light, I would never have known any different. As I mentioned previously, one of the guys at the local MB jokingly(?) advised that I should maybe remove the bulb and sell the vehicle fast. In your case if you have just bought it from a dealer, maybe you should visit Citizen's Advice.

Well, regarding my problem, in the end I had to bite the bullet and get it done. Family were visiting from overseas in April and the last thing I needed was to be without a car, especially if it threw a wobbly whilst I was showing them round the UK.

I finally found an 'Independent MB Specialist' firm called 'NJS Solutions' near Sevenoaks in Kent, whose owner Nigel gave me confidence that he knew what he was talking about. As I used to do some servicing before it all became too computerised, what I liked was that Nigel would discuss and explain what was happening and kept me updated with the progress - which took nearly 4 weeks Feb/March, with the spares being ordered from Germany.
The engine was removed and the Cam gears were found to be damaged. In fact the top sharp ends of a number of cogs round which the chain runs had actually broken off, which in turn was damaging the chain which was running on the remaining stub of the cogs that remained. This changed the timing of the engine and hence the engine light. In my opinion with continued use, sooner or later the chain might have come right off the cogs - not bear to think about if it happened at speed on the motorway. It certainly would be a health and safety matter for MB then!
To non expert eyes, it looked like the metal had not been tempered properly.
Of course then other stuff was also replaced:
Intermediate Gear and Balance Shaft: Timing Chain and Tensioner: Guide Rails: Various oil seals and gaskets and various oils and liquids, eg power steering oil, engine oil and filter; reconnecting and recharging the aircon, etc.
I must say Nigel and his assistant Dave did a grand job; the engine and all the peripherals were cleaned and polished, looking like new.
Certainly the vehicle runs much more quietly and the fuel consumption has gone up (a little).
I can tell you that it was certainly not cheap, but was less than the price estimated by MB. As far as the value of the vehicle, it certainly won't add anything, but then what would I have got if I had managed to sell it with the fault; and frankly I would not have been comfortable selling it on in this condition.

 

[CDK1]

Continued from previous post....

..Cont from previous post..
Sorry, pressed the Submit button by mistake - it's a bit late!

....>
I can tell you that it was certainly not cheap, but was less than the price estimated by MB. As far as the value of the vehicle, it certainly won't add anything; but then what would I have got if I had managed to sell it with the fault, and frankly I would not have been comfortable selling it on in this condition.
I asked them to return the damaged parts to me, which they did, in a medium sized box, which at the moment is in my garage.
Now that my guests have returned home I am wondering what to do next. First to approach MB making out my case, going to Trading Standards or going straight to BBC Watchdog. In my non-expert opinion the damage to the cogs certainly does not constitute wear and tear - there is a difference between normally worn and broken cogs (I have visions of having metallurgist checks, etc - more expense). The MB service history and 'out of warranty' story does not hold water either as even an MB service would not have found the fault till it failed.

If anybody has any advice/comments, it would be much appreciated.
Sorry to be so long winded.

Would be interesting to know what you have done regarding your vehicle.
Regards,
cdk

.

 

[Alex Crow]

Very unusual for the cam gears to be damaged too on these engines - usually just the balance shaft gear.

 

[CDK1]

Hi Alex,
Yes, well spotted, - it was the balance shaft gear (must go to sleep earlier!).
If you google for the MB Bulletin Ref: S-B-03.30/08i, dated 23 April 2009, the pictures shown there (esp pic 2), are exactly like the damage found on my engine.

cdk1
..