Mercs reliable???

[mercmadjim]

I bought both of my Mercedes Benz's thinking that I had bought reliable, sturdy German engineered cars, that would last me for years.........but after reading these forums......having a few small niggly faults and going to my local MB dealer, I am having second thoughts.
I have read about rust on here, leaky supercharger pipes, SAMs, front SAMs, back SAMS, knocks, rattles, and just about every malady that could happen, indeed a flat battery is fraught with danger!!! it would seem that I may have made a bad choice....or have I ???

Are Mercs more or less reliable than other makes, BMW, Volvo,etc

 

[roofless]

it might look that way but most people only post the faults so when you consider the number of post a day re faults & the number of mercedes on the road of all ages not only in the uk it's not bad

 

[rf065]

it might look that way but most people only post the faults so when you consider the number of post a day re faults & the number of mercedes on the road of all ages not only in the uk it's not bad

I agree with that but also have to add, mine has been the most unreliable car I've ever had. It has now covered 27,500 miles from new & has had 5 warranty claims. I still like it though & intend to keep it for many years, so hopefully all the problems are behind me.

Russ

 

[Jay Gee]

Mercmadjim,I have had exactly the same concerns. I voiced(?) them in another thread,and Malcolm and Sam appeased my worries about going for a C200/220CDi this year by saying that it's only the bad ones you hear about on here.There don't 'alf seem to be a lot,though. Some are expensive fixes as well.Not clear yet what my next car will be :-?

 

[MarkF]

I have a ML270CDi that apart from wear and tear has been and still is first class.
We have had Mercs in my family for over 20 years from the 190 to the C180K elegance SE estate that dad has now bought new in 2004, apart from a problem with the alarm on the 2nd C class all have been trouble free from new.

 

[Juddian]

We've had the present 124 coupe for roughly 6 years, its had the usual wiring loom problem that could have ended up costing about £2.5K, were it not for my totally reliable and trustworthy indy and the dashed clever fellows at Avilec, who between them halved that.

Other than that its had just wear and tear items replaced as and when, but i do maintain well so things that maybe others would leave i don't so my costs may look more for maintenance but maybe are cheaper for repairs, who knows.

If it wasn't so pretty and unique i daresay it would have been got rid of long ago.
I've had 3 other 124's the most reliable by a long chalk being the 95 diesel which was completely trouble free, which makes sense as it had very little in the way of electronics and was fairly basic.

I'm very undecided as to my future car purchase plans too, i may end up keeping the coupe till either it or i drop dead, but i'm very sorely tempted by the astonishing value of the E39 M5's during the present plunge into depression.

The way i feel at present i',m wary of buying any MB built after the 124's up until about 04 onwards, i do like the 211 E class, but i'll wait to see how they age.
BMW didn't let their body and paint quality become so shoddy as MB during those intervening years, and i'm still wondering whether to try and get as good as posible condition vehicle as possible regd before 2001 to be VED rip off proof for when that rears its ugly head again next year.

I'm overall happy with my 124's, i would have a 126 lwb or coupe, as their not too silly with the electrics unlike some of the newer stuff, and retain old fashioned MB character and individuality.

If i wanted a car stuffed with electrics it would probably have to be a Lexus, only trouble is there's no GSF or Europarts for Lexus and i can't see me replacing all 4 discs and pads for about £200 on a LS430, unless someone would like to give me something else to ponder on when they tell me about the secret parts suppliers for Japanese cars..

 

[carlsson20]

If i wanted a car stuffed with electrics it would probably have to be a Lexus, only trouble is there's no GSF or Europarts for Lexus and i can't see me replacing all 4 discs and pads for about £200 on a LS430, unless someone would like to give me something else to ponder on when they tell me about the secret parts suppliers for Japanese cars..


not a million miles away

http://www.prolex-uk.com/store/index.php?cPath=296&osCsid=5da2d79b2a8b8a3a4cba0f658fd35aaa

 

[carlsson20]

If memory serves me right the GS 430 have the same dics and pads as the LS 430, I had the front discs and pads change on my GS 430 at the last service (main dealer) if memory serves me right is was around £130

 

[Juddian]

not a million miles away

http://www.prolex-uk.com/store/index.php?cPath=296&osCsid=5da2d79b2a8b8a3a4cba0f658fd35aaa

This place is great, its like waving a magic wand...abracadabra....
all is reavealed.

Now thats given me some food for thought, many thanks for that link.

 

[carlsson20]

This place is great, its like waving a magic wand...abracadabra....
all is reavealed.

Now thats given me some food for thought, many thanks for that link.

I think you will find those are competition parts therefore dearer than the lexus main dealer

 

[Juddian]

I think you will find those are competition parts therefore dearer than the lexus main dealer

Yes i wouldn't partularly want drilled and grooved whatever's, i would still like to find the GSF for lexus if thats possible.

On other all make forums i only ever hear good things about Lexus dealers, and owning a nearly new hilux pick up, i can only praise their humbler equivalents for Toyota as well, no rip offs, fair pricing and a totally (16 months only so plenty to go wrong yet) reliable vehicle so far.

 

[carlsson20]

I've driven Lexus for the last few years, never ever had a problem, serviced once a year at the main dealers, cost around £400/500, 430s have good strong engines, fine in a straight line boring to drive but you always get where you want to go, I suppose it's all about how you want to turn up.

 

[Autofix]

Heres my opinion, for what its worth.

I fix Mercedes and BMWon a daily basis. I see the bad and the good. There is no doubt that the quality of Mercedes cars has declined but the quality of all car brands have declined too. I feel it would be accurate to say that Mercedes do not deserve the reputation that they once had. There have been some particularly bad patches in Merc production but also some not so bad. Unfortunately I think BMW have, in general, surpassed Mercedes in terms of quality.

I have need of a good 7 seater vehicle and am actively looking for same now. If it were available I would happily buy a brand new 124 body 300D. Failing that I will buy a low mileage 210 T or a 2005 onwards 211 or a LWB Toyota Land Cruiser.

 

[Cole@MBS]

I think a lot of it is due to sites like this one, and many others.

People only post when they have a problem with their cars, we must have seen nearly every fault merc have ever had!

The thing is you never hear about the good ones out there, one comes to mind,

It was a 210 which was used 24hr a day,it had over 450000 miles on it, 51 plate, the only time the car had let the chap down was when the battery failed!

We never hear about those good ones, only the bad ones!

 

[PeterCLK]

My 3 year old Toyota wouldn't start this morning and I had to call the AA.
Nothing is perfect but nothing compares to driving and arriving in a Merc.
Of the 17 cars I've had my CLK is far and away the best.

 

[stumpy]

We've had the present 124 coupe for roughly 6 years, its had the usual wiring loom problem that could have ended up costing about £2.5K, were it not for my totally reliable and trustworthy indy and the dashed clever fellows at Avilec, who between them halved that.

Other than that its had just wear and tear items replaced as and when, but i do maintain well so things that maybe others would leave i don't so my costs may look more for maintenance but maybe are cheaper for repairs, who knows.

If it wasn't so pretty and unique i daresay it would have been got rid of long ago.
I've had 3 other 124's the most reliable by a long chalk being the 95 diesel which was completely trouble free, which makes sense as it had very little in the way of electronics and was fairly basic.

I'm very undecided as to my future car purchase plans too, i may end up keeping the coupe till either it or i drop dead, but i'm very sorely tempted by the astonishing value of the E39 M5's during the present plunge into depression.

The way i feel at present i',m wary of buying any MB built after the 124's up until about 04 onwards, i do like the 211 E class, but i'll wait to see how they age.
BMW didn't let their body and paint quality become so shoddy as MB during those intervening years, and i'm still wondering whether to try and get as good as posible condition vehicle as possible regd before 2001 to be VED rip off proof for when that rears its ugly head again next year.

I'm overall happy with my 124's, i would have a 126 lwb or coupe, as their not too silly with the electrics unlike some of the newer stuff, and retain old fashioned MB character and individuality.

If i wanted a car stuffed with electrics it would probably have to be a Lexus, only trouble is there's no GSF or Europarts for Lexus and i can't see me replacing all 4 discs and pads for about £200 on a LS430, unless someone would like to give me something else to ponder on when they tell me about the secret parts suppliers for Japanese cars..

I have had 2 E39 M5s. Anything you want to know then ask away.

 

[Juddian]

I have had 2 E39 M5s. Anything you want to know then ask away.

Stumpy, top man.

Thats just what i want someone who's likely to have a reasonable perspective, its always a problem asking on a make specific forum as many are understandably defensive of their brand choice and sometimes too loyal.
We sometimes see that sort of thing here, sort of love is blind almost.

Right, basically just how reliable are these M5's and what sort of year should i be looking at, by that i mean i would like a year 2000 to take advantage of cheating dick turpin the VED highwayman out of his rip off, but if you say to me get one of the very last then thats fair enough. If i'm going to pay the full VED i'd sooner get as new as possible.

I've heard reference to a 'Vanos' or similar problem, i have no idea what this is.

Can i get normal service parts from GSF/Eurocarparts or is this BM only.

Is there an achilles heel or 2 to these cars, what should i look for.
Is the gearbox strong enough to stand the considerable power.
Is the engine bullet proof.
Do the electrics stand the test of time.

Any buying pointers you could give me would be most gratefully received, anything at all that comes to mind.
I tend to keep my cars for a long time, so i'm hoping rust isn't an issue.

One other thing, i see its possible to buy an E60 545i for about the same price as a E39 M5, apart from the fact that the front looks unfinished to me, thats personal taste, are they as good a used bet as the E39.

You'd think that i'd have grown out of damned eccentric cars like this by now, but i have those V8 withdrawl symptoms nagging at me, its years since i owned one, and i want to fix that before the next set of lunatics in parliament make it illegal.

Thanks for your time and interest.....Judd.

 

[stumpy]

Comparison between BMW and Mercedes

OK - here goes............

To keep the mods happy, the following post gives balance to the Merc bashing and paints a comparison based on my own experience of BMW reliability:neutral:

Firstly an appraisal of the car - The fact I have had 2 M5s says it all. I sold my first one to fund a relationship, regretted it so I binned the relationship and bought another M5:twisted: The E39 (of any type) is one of the best, and in the M5s case THE best car BMW have ever made. The styling, ergonomics, ride, handling and performance are all top drawer. I ordered a new V10 M5 a few years ago but cancelled it after the test drive. The old one has so much character that the new ones can't match. (Think W124s) That said, we have an E60 535d on the fleet too which is an awesome piece of kit but for different reasons. The old M5 is a bit tight on space in the back if you are tall, and the steering is a bit numb (on std and sport settings) but those are the only -ves. The ride and handling are perfect and the power addictive. Yes it is a manual (bit notchy) but it is one of those cars that is a gear higher than you think. You can pull away in third and leave it there till 100 if you want. 4th is the best gear and the wallop you get will spin the wheels in the wet so leave the TC on.

What is my experience of owning one? Warranty warranty warranty!

My first car was perfect, but my second was not so, and probably not helped by it being a garage queen and not driven often enough.

It was an 02 with 21k miles when I got it. Had it over 3 years and sold with 43k miles on it. My list of warranty work is:

Oil leak from back of head: 2k
New Vanos pumps and gears: 7k (common)
Rear trailing arm bushes: ? (very common)
Diff oil leak: ? (very common and best left unless bad)
Dash pixels: 600 (very common)
Fan speed control unit : ? (common)
Misted headlights : ? (common)
Parking sensors: ? (common)
Creaking door shuts : (common) solved by teflon tape to the shuts
RUST: Yes, BMWs do rust! Bonnet replaced due to rust, and rear 3/4 replaced due rust inside filler bowl. This is common though my mums E39 T does not suffer from it.

I changed the MAFs myself - Bosch units from VW are the same but less than half the oem cost. These are common failure points giving EML lights and poor running.

Other things that go (not on mine) are Cam Pos Sensors, the black chrome trim on the windows rusts (not covered under body warranty!) ARB droplinks.

The clutch obviously will wear dependent on driving style but the gearbox is strong and engine can do over 100k miles without trouble.

Warranties on these cars (from BMW) are only valid if there are no breaks in the cover. Miss it by one day and you can't renew. The warranty is 1150 p/a up to 60k miles and then 1850 p/a up to 100k miles. £250 per claim excess applies in all cases. No warranty is available over 100k. If I were you I would get an 01 car. You will still beat the VED but you get the angel eye lights, LED rears, widescreen nav, better steering wheel, grey dials, improved VANOS and an oval rear view mirror.

There is confusion over which oil to use in these engines. They changed the spec of the engines at the 00 - 01 facelift and even BMW aren't really clear about it. Many dealers do the 4+ discount so I'd keep within the dealer network for servicing.

People do tune these up with better brakes, bushes, Bluetooth, NAV, exhausts etc but mine just had a short shift gearbox linkage and AP brakes.

What helped me was that I had a superb main dealer relationship (far better than any MB) so that makes it easier to deal with the problems which occur.

So to sum up - Amazing cars and quite barmy value for money to buy, but you need a slush fund of a few grand a year to run it. I would have another one if I had the space but well looked after ones are thin on the ground now.

This post is not just so you lot can bash BMWs (I challenge anyone to drive an M5 and not be impressed, especially at 10 grand!) but more to illustrate the point that all manufacturers have issues with reliability, not just Merc. Even my Bentley Spur has had a couple of issues, and my RL has cost me 14 grand this year in running repairs! Modern cars have so much 'stuff' in them and have to fill so many briefs I'm not surprised they go wrong. Prices are the same as they were 10 years ago though so quality will suffer.

I get the pee taken all the time about my TVR and standing at the side of the road, but that car has never let me down like the various Mercs, BMs and Subarus I've owned all have.

HTH

PS don't get a 545i. Not a patch on the E39.
Engine electrics fine, fan ecus, dash displays not so fine

 

[hawk20]

Nobody writes in to the forum to say their rear lights worked perfectly today.

Visit the BMW forums if you want to see plenty of gripes.

Or even the Lexus ones.

Modern cars are incredibly complex and full to the brim with electronics. Bound to be some problems.

Hearing about the odd bad one, or owning the odd bad one, tells us nothing about reliabilty in general. Large surveys are the best guide. The biggest is J.D Power.

Note that the E class missed top exec car by a whisker in the J D Power 2008 survey, and finished in the top 10 of all cars for customer satisfaction.

Worth noting too that in the AutoExpress Driver Power 2008 survey it finished top executive car and finished 3rd overall of all the 100 cars in the survey.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008/

For JD Power see: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=55259

and: -
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/news-specia...612&EL=3243769


See also this thread: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=55483

Here is what JD Power say about Lexus: -
"The Lexus IS is second in class and third overall.

Owners reported very good interior build quality, loved the way the car drives and looks, and rated Lexus dealers as among the best.

There are chinks in its armour, though. Mechanical reliability was only average; a number of owners reported engine faults. Running costs were so-so, with relatively steep fuel bills."

 

[Phil D]

1997 W202 - best car I ever had - new to 70,000 miles in 18 months - never so much as coughed.
2004 (facelift) W203 - bought nearly new - first niggly fault occurred within a week of leaving the dealers. Over the next 3 years it proved to be the worst car I have had in 20 years.
Like most people on this site I love mercs to bits but reality has to bite - they are not what they were - no surprise really when you look at the numbers - the 1997 car - a 200 elegance cost around 27k new - the 2004 car - a 220 cdi elegance - miles better on paper & with more toys / gizmos cost the same - guess where the savings came from ?
having said that I've just seen a 1996 SLK 230 with 46,000 miles on a main dealer site for under 6 grand - a good buy?