More Road Toll Proposals

[47p2]

THIS IS A NEW PETITION…..PLEASE READ AND SIGN THE PETITION

It seems that Mr Blair is at it again. The government want to implement
road tolls in Scotland.
So why should you bother.
You are after all south of the border.
Think about this
The government will use Scotland as the guinea pig,. Once the system
has been running here they will very quickly implement it south of the
border.
Don't let this happen. Click the link and sign the petition today.

http://www.scottishconservatives.com/roadtolls/index.asp

Thank you

 

[eric242340]

If you use the roads then you should pay, why should the tax payer pay for roads if they dont use them. They are conciencious citizens who use public transport and pay for the privelage. Why should their tax money be spent to help car drivers? In most countries toll roads are normal. Private developers build the roads and users pay, what is wrong with that? This subject has nothing to do with a north/south divide or an England/Scotland/Ireland/Wales thing. Its about sensible management. So why sign this?

 

[Hibbo]

If you use the roads then you should pay, why should the tax payer pay for roads if they dont use them. They are conciencious citizens who use public transport and pay for the privelage. Why should their tax money be spent to help car drivers? In most countries toll roads are normal. Private developers build the roads and users pay, what is wrong with that? This subject has nothing to do with a north/south divide or an England/Scotland/Ireland/Wales thing. Its about sensible management. So why sign this?

Very true Eric, we must be realistic about this.

I have idly copied what I wrote on another thread:

At present our roads are funded by Vehicle Excise Duty and Fuel Duty. (Where the money actually goes is a different debate...) VED is based on how polluting your vehicle is. This is clearly good, just and fair. Fuel Duty also means that those who drive less economical cars pay more. However the issue with high fuel duty is that people/businesses that by virtue have to operate fuel-hungry vehicles (ie hauliers) are at a massive disadvantage, especially when compared to European companies.

How I would do it would be to remove fuel duty, which currently stands at 49.1pence per litre on diesel. VAT would inevitably remain. This would reduce the incentive to drive a more economical vehicle, so I would increase the VED differential between more polluting and less polluting vehicles (yes, I am making the assumption that more polluting=less efficient and vice versa).

I would then charge based on time of day, location and size of vehicle. I would leave the prices to self-regulate within reason - some roads would have to be held artificially low as everyone NEEDS (not would like) to use them.
This would obviously result in the situation that if you want to drive through central London at half 8 on a monday morning - you are going to pay for it. If you want to blast across the Jock highlands on a Thursday evening - crack on!

The current system is extremely antiquated, not to mention unfair. I am of course putting full faith in the Government acting completely fairly and not just using it to raise yet more revenue.


Besides, I could never click a link that had 'conservatives' in it!

 

[Dave's E55 AMG]

If you don't want to sign it Eric then don't, that's a strong comment from an expat for many years.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Eric, I'm not sure you understand the argument here.

The motorist contributes about £50bn into the treasury each year through a range of taxes. Only around 20% of that is spent on transport - the rest is spent on other government costs.

So the motorist actually pays a lot of money, only a small percentage of which funds those services which he/she is using.

The other aspect, IMO the most important aspect, is that the government wants to track every journey. That means the government will have a record of where every single car in the country has been, is going, or is likely to go to. Thats a massive infringment of civil liberties. The government here has no business whatsoever tracking our movements like this.

We have a democracy. We elect a government to run the country. We do not elect that government to run our lives - and we will never accept it.

I can appreciate things are very different in China.

I think you should also consider that in the last general election, more people voted conservative than labour. Its just our system of elections that means we still have a labour government.

 

[Myros]

just a small point

I don't think we are actually a democracy yet. We certainly don't have a bill of rights and a written constitution. We are called a democracy though.

We can't impeach the prime minister for instance, as the yanks nearly did with Nixon. We rely on the party concerned to bury the offending individual and replace them with somthing similar.

 

[ceejay]

I don't think we are actually a democracy yet. .

Too right... we get the chance to vote for a candidate of someone elses choosing in parties that will do what ever they want and not what is in the manifesto they publish.

But all to line their own pockets at our expense.

Eric, do you pay taxes to UK? or do you live expat status?

I am sure that in China the tax burden of 70% would not be tolerated.

(ie start working in January of the new year and it is almost August until you earn any money for yourself.)

 

[eric242340]

If you don't want to sign it Eric then don't, that's a strong comment from an expat for many years.

Because i firmly believe things should change, and I think UK has been too soft on this issue for too many years. if you believe in green and less polution then why should your hard earned taxes be used to build new roads for the truckies? The people and companies who use the facilities should pay to build and improve them. I dont want to sound extremist, but reality is just this. If a pensioner who is still paying tax, takes the train home each evening then his/her tax is well spent and not creating too much polution. Many people can ride on the train together, but one person in a car? and that car creates polution on its own Im not trying to be mr goodbody but believe we should all respect the planet and each other.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

The people and companies who use the roads do pay for them. Many many times over. The more you use them, the more you pay.

And public transport is not necessarily a green option. What if the train is only half full? Have you ever sat in traffic behind a bus - you should see the filth that comes out, its astounding. I would love to know the emissions from a standard double decker bus of the variety used all over this country, you know, the ones that are 20 years old? Even the new ones have their cats removed after the MOT (so I'm told).


The issue here is tracking - the government wanting to know where you are at all times. Probably not a big deal in a country like China, but its a very big issue over here where we value liberty.

 

[Myros]

That bus thing cuts me up

there are buses on the road today that were old when I rode them to school thirty years ago. Just how much money can you milk out of one of them before you have to retire it and buy one twenty years old?

 

[johnmc]

Hi,
I signed the petition. Once the GPS recorders are in your car it's a simple matter to record your speed as well as location. That will be of great interest to your insurer and to speed enforcement. We argue periodically on this forum about when is it safe to speed. The argument will be taken out of your hands. I work at the leading edge of wireless technology and right now the only missing piece is an accurate database to make the judgements on your behalf in the right quantity each day. Some of the right software exists today in mobile phone networks operated by Orange, Vodaphone etc and can handle many millions of transactions. Security will be an issue, but number plates won't matter. All the data required will be in the module. If it is kept secure in the car with modern encryption cyphers it it will be tough to argue about whose car it was..! In five to ten years time this will be easy to do.

The question is, do you want it?

Bye!
John

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I'm going to buy an Aerial Atom, and ensure that the black box gets rained on all the time.

 

[BarryG]

Because i firmly believe things should change, and I think UK has been too soft on this issue for too many years. if you believe in green and less polution then why should your hard earned taxes be used to build new roads for the truckies? The people and companies who use the facilities should pay to build and improve them. I dont want to sound extremist, but reality is just this. If a pensioner who is still paying tax, takes the train home each evening then his/her tax is well spent and not creating too much polution. Many people can ride on the train together, but one person in a car? and that car creates polution on its own Im not trying to be mr goodbody but believe we should all respect the planet and each other.

You make it sound like the "truckies" are just out there riding around on our roads for the fun of it.
I was under the impression they were working . Delivering "our" goods. The list is endless, postal, foods, manufacturing , building materials, Etc. Increase their costs, you increase my costs for the end product, eventually, whatever that maybe. ( So I still ended up losing money)
As for trains, they cannot go from door to door, and sadly lately, here, reach there destination safely.
I for one do not want a little black box in my car, informing "Big Brother" where I am in it, at all times.
As for your other statements about tax payers subsidising cars, as has been stated in the other posts over £50bn is extracted from motorists. Very little of this is used for the benifit of motorists.
As for the roads they were built with the aforementioned money extracted from us, not by private companies, but Great Britain PLC and we are all shareholders.

 

[Iain the gadget]

I'm going to buy an Aerial Atom, and ensure that the black box gets rained on all the time.

IAIN SAYS THANKS FOR THIS POST.