MOT emission problems?

[SL6OAMG]

I'm having some trouble getting the MOT garage to pass my car on emissions. The car is a Mercedes 300ce-24 these where manufactured with both a cat and without a cat. My car was registered on the 1.08.92 which vosa state is the date the full emission test has to be carried out, which is a pain in the rear. The strange thing is the MOT garage has tested the car as an E320 (says that on the emission sheet), which is a completely different engine, these all came with cats. So is my car not listed on the emission testing equipment? If so I've read that the car has to be tested on a pre 1.08.92 emissions test. I'm I right in thinking this? Also as my car was registered on the 1st of August 1992. It would have been manufactured before that date.

After failing the MOT I've taken the car to my local Mercedes indie to plug it up to their diagnostic equipment at £45 a go. It comes up with no faults. They are now going to start doing some manual diagnostics, which is going to cost me £57 an hour. I have a feeling I'm paying them to check the car over and there really isn't any fault and the MOT station has failed my car when it really has nothing wrong with it. If they have done that is there anyway to get Vosa to pay me back for all the unnecessary work I've now had carried out.

I really need to get some ammo for tomorrow, so is there anyone in the know who can fill in the blanks for me. Any help would be great!

Thanks

I also posted this on Pistonheads, so sorry for some of the silly details.

 

[bigtwin]

If they have done that is there anyway to get Vosa to pay me back for all the unnecessary work I've now had carried out.

I know the answers to none of your post, save for that bit.

Not a prayer. Not even in your dreams.

You have my sympathy though - it's hard enough for me with my 76 MG. The number of garages that fail it as a matter of course by applying the wrong criteria.

 

[SL6OAMG]

I found this letter that someone got from VOSA on pistonheads.

This is a reply from VOSA

“The lack of a catalytic converter is not an automatic fail in itself, but a vehicle may struggle to meet the required emission limits without one. Prior to 31 July 1992, a spark ignition engine is required to meet limits of CO<=3.5% and HC<=1200ppm. Between 1 August 1992 and 31July 1995, the limits will depend on whether or not the vehicle is listed in the current edition of the In Service Exhaust Emission Standards for Road Vehicles book ( currently the Ninth Edition) which all MOT stations are required to hold. If there is an exact match in this book for the vehicle ( regarding engine number/type, model, chassis no, etc. The exact requirements vary between manufacturers) then the vehicle will be tested to the limits in the book. If an exact match cannot be found, the vehicle will again need to meet limits of CO<=3.5% and HC<=1200ppm. I have looked up your particular model and engine and, as stated in your e-mail, this combination is not listed and therefore the vehicle would need to meet limits of CO<=3.5% and HC<=1200ppm. From 1 August 1995, the requirements again depend on whether or not the vehicle is listed in the Emissions book. As your particular combination is not listed, vehicles of this age would need to be tested to the following limits: Minimum oil temperature : 60C Idle (450 - 1500rpm) CO<=4.5% Fast Idle (2500-3000rpm) CO<=0.3% HC<=200ppm Lambda= 0.97 to 1.03 There is one possible exemption to the above requirements. If the customer can provide a letter from the manufacturer, quoting the chassis number and engine number of the vehicle, stating that the engine as originally installed could not meet the relevant UK emissions limits. In this case, the vehicle can be tested to the next lowest limit.” Hope this clears things up...

As the MOT tester put the car as an E320 on the emission test I would take a guess he couldn't find a 300ce-24 on the system. That letter states that if it's not in the emission book, it doesn't need to have a Cat test carried out even if it has one fitted.

 

[kth286]

1. I would have thought that you need to take up matters with the MOT testing station and point out the error in their engine choice.

Your's is not a 320 which has a completely different fueliing and ignition system being totally electronic and combining both aspects in one computer system.

They should retest as a previous model.

There is a complaint system available to you if you get no joy at your testing station.

2. Does your car have the cat system ?

If so the problem is likely the lambda probe in the exhaust and I should get it replaced anyway.
It is considered a service item at around 100,000 miles for that generation of car.

Get the indie to change the lambda or at lease test it is working ok.

Can the indie do the MOT for you. ??

NB. It is very rarely the cat at fault with bad emissions, if the lambda probe is working OK so do not be told to have a new cat, without very serious consideration.

My car has doine over 160,000 miles on original cat and easily passed test.

Where you based ? and what indie you using ?

 

[SL6OAMG]

Thanks for the reply.

The MOT guy is still arguing that the car should have a CAT test carried out. But he has passed it on the pre CAT test but I have to prove I'm right. I have printed out the info I got yesterday and also phoned VOSA this morning and they say the car needs to have a pre CAT test. The MOT guy really is clueless and I'll be taking my car back to the regular guy who's more expensive but least knows how to do his job.

I took the car down to my Mercedes Indie (Wheels in Loudwater). They plugged the car in to the diagnostics and couldn't pull any faults (probably because there wasn't one). I now have a bill of £55 for the pleasure of the Diagnostics and they spent about an hour fiddling with the car. So I'm really p*ssed off as I've still got to prove I'm right and I know the MOT guy won't reimburse me for the £55 that I wasted!

If I wouldn't have got on the internet most of last night I would be paying Wheels to do allsorts of manual testing which was going to be £150 min. That really would have pushed me over the edge.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Hi,
I would be getting the MOT guy to ring V.O.S.A. to confirm your findings after all this is what "he" should of done in the first place rather than being lazy and putting your car in as having a 320 engine, he should definetly reimburse you your money as it was his mistake not yours.
Glad you got it sorted.

 

[SL6OAMG]

Thanks for the reply.

The MOT guy is still arguing that the car should have a CAT test carried out. But he has passed it on the pre CAT test but I have to prove I'm right. I have printed out the info I got yesterday and also phoned VOSA this morning and they say the car needs to have a pre CAT test. The MOT guy really is clueless and I'll be taking my car back to the regular guy who's more expensive but least knows how to do his job.

I took the car down to my Mercedes Indie (Wheels in Loudwater). They plugged the car in to the diagnostics and couldn't pull any faults (probably because there wasn't one). I now have a bill of £55 for the pleasure of the Diagnostics and they spent about an hour fiddling with the car. So I'm really p*ssed off as I've still got to prove I'm right and I know the MOT guy won't reimburse me for the £55 that I wasted!

If I wouldn't have got on the internet most of last night I would be paying Wheels to do allsorts of manual testing which was going to be £150 min. That really would have pushed me over the edge.

 

[Cnics]

Whilst we cannot be 100% sure without all the details, it's looking from the book (not the 9th edition may i add) that your vehicle probably isn't listed. As such (as its between 92 and 95) It should be tested as a non-cat vehicle to (as stated above) the 3.5% CO limit and 1200ppm HC limit. La results do not matter for this test.

Vosa will not reimburse you for the MOT costs as you needed and MOT anyway, they'll help you get the right result. As for the diagnostics costs. You could take it up with the MOT station but there's a chance it could be more trouble than its worth. One thing you have gained is the knowledge that there are no fault codes showing.

If the MOT station has now passed the vehicle then that's fine. If not, ask the guy for an appeal form (VT17 if i remember rightly) which he should have available or at least be able to source fairly quickly. You may find that by asking for the VT17, you get the VT20 you require!

 

[SL6OAMG]

Got it sorted in the end and got my MOT fee back. So not to angry anymore, but he still wouldn't admit he was in the wrong. It was all the systems fault he says.

So thanks to anyone who gave me some advice.

 

[bigasotonuk]

Glad you got a good result.

 

[pomm001]

Got it sorted in the end and got my MOT fee back. So not to angry anymore, but he still wouldn't admit he was in the wrong. It was all the systems fault he says.

So thanks to anyone who gave me some advice.

its not worth the rise in blood pressure, just dont go there again, maybe its his pride that wont admit he's wrong but you have got your fee returned which to me would be an admission, if you feel that strongly bring it to the attenion VOSA ?