Mot failure regulations.

[Quick Silver]

One of my colleagues had his taxi MOT tested at the Council depot(it has no repair facilities), Now we have to have our taxis tested every 6 months (council by laws) by the Council. The MOT pass certificates issued are still valid for one year as normal.

Now what has happened is that the vehicle failed on emissions and he drove out of the Council MOT to drive home and to arrange to have the problem sorted, on the the way he was stopped by police as it had flagged up no MOT, he had all the documentation to prove all this including the old MOT which still had 6 months to run.

He was told that the failure cancels the current MOT immediately and the vehicle no longer has a valid MOT.

The Police have :
impounded the taxi.
done HIM for no MOT.
done him for no insurance as insurance invalidated.
done him for driving an unroadworthy vehicle.

The council removed the taxi licence plate from the vehicle to prevent it from working which is standard procedure we all accept.

After what would have been a minor fix the poor guy is beside himself, cant work, can't afford the release fee, can't afford the recovery charge to take vehicle from pound to repairers. It is not an old vehicle by any means it's only two and a half years old.

This all happened within 15 mins of leaving the MOT Station.

Does anybody know for sure whether this is right as it seems grossly unfair to me and draconian beyond belief.

What was a couple of quid fix has now escalated into somewhere in the region of £1000 + fines + loss of income.


No barrack room lawyers please, just some one that really knows the law on this.

The old MOT system had two kinds of failure certificate, one red and one brown. If it was issued with a red it was not allowed back on the road untill fixed.

The VOSA site is useless with regard to this by the way.

 

[Mic]

I cannot answer your question(s) but even if the police/council are strictly right it sounds like a gross over reaction that helps nobody......surely there must be some ''history'' behind this story?

Mic

 

[Quick Silver]

I cannot answer your question(s) but even if the police/council are strictly right it sounds like a gross over reaction that helps nobody......surely there must be some ''history'' behind this story?

Mic

Non whatsoever Mic, it all happened yesterday, the guy is in his late 50's no previous as would not be allowed to drive a taxi, has a clean licence and is a repectable gent.

 

[Xtractorfan]

I certainly agree it is a gross miscarriage of justice, was he specifically told that his mot was now invalid, and that he should not be driving the vehicle on the road..
I think in his case there should be a meeting of all the local Taxi drivers and a deputation should be immediately dispatched to the local town hall or even the home of the council head honcho and the mayor until this matter is resolved...
We are getting to the point now where the ordinary working man will have to take to the streets in order to be able to live in this so called democracy.. Had it happened in Libya, Russia, Syria, Uganda to name but a few, then we would all have been extolling the virtues of our free society..
A democracy and freedom yes.. as long as you abide by the rules..
I also get the impression that a council employee reported the guy to the police

 

[dieselman]

I think the Police are wrong here, the original MOT is still in force until it's expiry date. Irrespective of that the law says you can drive a vehicle to and from an MOT station without a valid MOT certificate in force.

Your friend needs to seek proper legal advice to get this charge quashed.

 

[Quick Silver]

I certainly agree it is a gross miscarriage of justice, was he specifically told that his mot was now invalid, and that he should not be driving the vehicle on the road..
I think in his case there should be a meeting of all the local Taxi drivers and a deputation should be immediately dispatched to the local town hall or even the home of the council head honcho and the mayor until this matter is resolved...
We are getting to the point now where the ordinary working man will have to take to the streets in order to be able to live in this so called democracy.. Had it happened in Libya, Russia, Syria, Uganda to name but a few, then we would all have been extolling the virtues of our free society..
A democracy and freedom yes.. as long as you abide by the rules..
I also get the impression that a council employee reported the guy to the police

Nothing to do with the council I'm afraid, picked up on ANPR its that quick now to update.
Our association spoke with seargent of the local traffic police who said he would have done things differently but it is down to individual officers discretion
This dont just affect taxi drivers as it affects all of us in the long run as what they are saying is that the vehicle must not leave the test centre in the event of failure and you are then at the mercy of the test centre if they also do repairs which makes a mockery of freedom of choice and preserved test dates. If the MOT Station do not have repair facilities then recovery is the option which to most people would be very expensive.

If the vehicle has an expired MOT then a different matter and I would agree.

 

[Quick Silver]

I think the Police are wrong here, the original MOT is still in force until it's expiry date. Irrespective of that the law says you can drive a vehicle to and from an MOT station without a valid MOT certificate in force.

Your friend needs to seek proper legal advice to get this charge quashed.

This is where it gets silly as you can drive to and from an MOT test station with no (expired) MOT PROVIDING it is prebooked.
As it stands right now he cant go to work, has no money to speak of and its a weekend and no ones interested.

 

[dieselman]

I still think the Police are wrong about the failure cancelling the valid certificate. I would be asking for proof of that statement as he has a valid MOT until expiry.

Having a valid MOT and having a roadworthy vehicle are two different things, but the certificate still stands for a year.
Nowhere on the certificate does it say the MOT is void if another test is failed.

He appears to be complying with the driving to or from an MOT test.

Why you need an MOT certificate

It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:

taking it to a test station for an MOT test booked in advance
bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the MOT test, to a place of repair
taking it to a place, by previous arrangement, where problems that caused the vehicle to fail its MOT test, can be repaired
bringing it away from a place where the problems with the vehicle have been repaired

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022108

More info.

http://www.mottest.net/mot/mot-failure-question/

If car fails MOT is the old test certificate still valid until its expiry date?

Well the answer does not seem to be found on any of the government information about the MOT test, so we emailed VOSA with this question and this is their response:

"An MOT certificate is valid until its expiry date. However if your vehicle fails a test before this date and you do not rectify the defects then you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence."

 

[mandrake]

diesel mans post seems ok to me . you are allowed to drive to and from a mot test center as long as you were booked in . i think you need a solicitor to help on this ,and also the police are out of line you say that you had the mot but as its a taxi they need testing every 6 months and it faild so they took the taxi permit off there and then .so shurely that reverts it to a private car so the mot is still valid . as for unroad worthy only certain trained officers have the powers to remove a car from the road that is deemed unroadworthy and as it was the emitions they dont have the equipment to check ,also they must provide you with a prohibition notice before the car can be stopped from driving any further ,and you have the option of recovering the car via the rac or aa . plus i have not known of a veihcle impounded for the lack of an mot as it not an endorsable offence yes tax and insurance but not an mot you usualy get a summons to apear in court thats unless things have changed since i left the force .

 

[Quick Silver]

We have been getting nowhere with this today and being a Saturday no one is really interested.
So tonight all of us are going to cause the Police a well deserved headache at their most inconvenient time.

Thanks for all the input and I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[rf065]

I still think the Police are wrong about the failure cancelling the valid certificate.

I think they may be correct. I always present my car for MOT 1 month before it is due, and when it passes I get 13 months instead of 12.

I always go on the understanding that should it fail, the month I had left is no longer valid as the failure cancels the existing certificate. It will be explained in the MOT regulations, I'm certain I've seen it before.

Russ

 

[television]

I think that Dieselmans posts are correct all the way through and his points are completely valid

 

[hotrodder]

I think the Police are wrong here, the original MOT is still in force until it's expiry date. Irrespective of that the law says you can drive a vehicle to and from an MOT station without a valid MOT certificate in force.

Your friend needs to seek proper legal advice to get this charge quashed.

This. Pepipoo would be a good place to get more info in the meantime. The exemption for driving to and from a prebooked MOT test is made in the Motor Vehicle Test Regulations section 44 although the rules may be different for hire and reward

Far from an expert in this but my understanding is that an MOT certificate remains valid until it's expiry date regardless. A valid MOT and roadworthyness are 2 very different things though...
The Police are far from infallible on the details of some things for example i've been tugged for not wearing a seatbelt in a 1954 Beetle several times. Most of the time plod realised their mistake when faced with the lack of seatbelts but i've had one spotty jobsworth get nasty about it

 

[whitenemesis]

As soon as the car is tested again it invalidates any pre-existing certificate.

 

[television]

As soon as the car is tested again it invalidates any pre-existing certificate.

But you still have the right to drive it home again unless dangerous

 

[whitenemesis]

But you still have the right to drive it home again unless dangerous

Quite right - from the directgov website

"It is generally an offence to use on a public road, a vehicle of testable age that doesn’t have a current test certificate, except when:

• taking it to a test station for an MOT test booked in advance.
• bringing it away from a test station after it has failed the MOT test, to a place of repair.
• taking it to a place, by previous arrangement, where problems that caused the vehicle to fail its MOT test, can be repaired.
• bringing it away from a place where the problems with the vehicle have been repaired.

Even in the above circumstances you may still be prosecuted for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if it doesn’t comply with various regulations affecting its construction and use. Your car insurance may also be invalid."

 

[mandrake]

I think that Dieselmans posts are correct all the way through and his points are completely valid

i tend to agree with him also .there is too much of this impound your car malarky your car may be fully legal but if you cannot prove it 100% at the roadside you have had it .only thing is prove it fully complies later and you still have all the costs to pay .one instance you have had your car 24 hours it can take a while to show on the data base and then even longer on anpr ,its 1 am you cannot get in touch with your broker . your car is taken by the police ,go back next day with proof and you still have the recovery and storage fees to pay

 

[andys320]

I bought a S320 about 8 weeks ago - on buying took it to Mercedes for a full health check although when bought it had a new MOT. Mercedes found a number of faults including potential MOT failure on front ball joints. Dealer (not franchised) that I bought form didn't seem to want to resolve at first so I contacted VOSA re MOT being wrong.


I was advised to challenge if required by having MOT by them - if it failed their test was advised they would sanction original MOT supplier but not tell me what it failed on, when I pointed out this seemed to put me at a disadvantage - eg they wouldn't help me challenge the dealer directly, but would effectively remove my MOT I was advised directly by VOSA that once an MOT is awarded it CANNOT be rescinded even if a subsequent test finds it invalid.

 

[mandrake]

beleve you and me dont ask the ministry to test your car if you think that the test you have is not right , big mistake as if they fail it you can be in all sorts of trouble as they have to retest the car, i belive .this is what i was told by a mot tester .if you are so worried about the test then a main dealer will quite happily test the car for you ,but then again a mot test is only one mans opinion at the time ,you could go to 5 mot stations and the chances are you will get a diferent outcome at at least 3 of them my last experience of mots has been with a 28 year old bedford cf motor home owned for 7 years and never a fail prior to that a renault saffrane 2.2 executive what a car , 3 years and no fail but then again i do maintain my viehcles year round not just once a year got 11 months to get my merc fettled gona start with the brakes

 

[muller1]

Taxi test

I think that the test the council does is a hackney carriage test which is different from an MOT test.
All light vehicles must have an MOT but they only get a council test if they are used as a hackney carriage.
In Scotland the council test does not come under the MOT test and they do not issue an MOT certificate only a council hackney carriage worthieness test.
This test takes into account,door locks and handles, seat coverings, door hinges etc, to name a few which have nothing to do with the MOT test.
The MOT test certificate which he has is still valid and as such he cannot be charged with no MOT and the police are wrong in ststing this.
The police ANPR cars in Scotland have their database updated each day and tthey are NOT LIVE UPDATED during the drivers shift, but only at the start of every shift.
The computers will not update the police vehicle at the time of supposed failure, this will be done on a daily baisis not a minute by minute real time update.
I am almost 100% certain someone at the council has called in regarding this case.

Regards.

Mike