Negative experience with Mercedes

[rf065]

I have, a few times. Like I wrote earlier. Perhps in Finland we have plenty of diesels and they are driven a lot so such failures also occur and are reported more often.

I would think there are many more diesels in the UK than Finland, still never heard of anyone holing a piston. What's Finland population, 5.5m?, the UK, 68m?

 

[Droverunner]

>>>What's odd about an independent car dealer that does not give warranty. Three months was the offer and... I have had the car a year since purchase.

Ahh OK. I asked because... as others have said... UK consumer law gives you a warranty and only the most dodgy dealers would try and give no warranty with a "Trade sale" receipt or similar like was common 20+ years ago. But you say you had a 3mth warranty so fair enough. Having the car go a full year before this happened means also it's unlikely it was a dodgy car with pre-existing fault sold knowingly by a dodgy dealer.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I would think there are many more diesels in the UK than Finland, still never heard of anyone holing a piston. What's Finland population, 5.5m?, the UK, 68m?

I’ve checked the warranty concerns index and MB have not issued a warranty failure & concern for injector failure causing melted pistons. The injectors were changed (gen 1 to gen 2) but that was Bosch-wide and not MB- specific. So any instances of this specific thing happening must be limited to whatever rate sits below MB’s market concern failure rate, which to be honest is pretty hot. So we’d be talking fewer than 1 in 10,000 cars in their first three years of warranty life.

 

[mersum1es]

I would think there are many more diesels in the UK than Finland, still never heard of anyone holing a piston. What's Finland population, 5.5m?, the UK, 68m?

Well probably so, but still high mileages could explain... I checked 2013-2014 c class diesels on sale...156 cars, average mileage 250 000 km.

Yeah but it seems I am just chiming here it can happen... Good luck. And warranty, we just got confirmation it won't go in warranty anyway? All cases I have read have been pretty old cars (w203/W211)

 

[tpn]

What's odd about an independent car dealer that does not give warranty. Three months was the offer and that has long passed, and like most, are not worth the paper they are written on. I have had the car a year since purchase. This car was built when Mercedes Benz were riddled with injector problems. This know doubt has the original injectors that were causing engine failures. https://www.carsuk.net/mercedes-fixes-diesel-injector-problems/

I have met plenty of car dealers who do not give a warranty, albeit dependent on what is knocked off the asking price, second time around.

An overfuelling injector can indeed cause a piston to be holed.

If you still have Piezo injectors in your car (Mercedes did not replace all of them with solenoid, they repaired some) you may have a recourse to assistance from Mercedes, as it is accepted by Mercedes that their Piezo injectors were not fit for purpose.

Simple way to tell is by pulling the plastic cover and looking at the sticker on the ECU. It will say "solenoid" in you do not have Piezo injectors, or if they were replaced.
If there is a hole in the piston you should also find Diesel in the oil.

 

[rf065]

Well probably so, but still high mileages could explain... I checked 2013-2014 c class diesels on sale...156 cars, average mileage 250 000 km.

So, 250,000 km equates to 155,000 miles, there are loads of Mercedes diesels in the UK with over 250,000 miles, let alone km's.
Just doesn't add up why Finland diesels would have holed pistons but it's unheard of anywhere else?

 

[SteveCa]

I have met plenty of car dealers who do not give a warranty, albeit dependent on what is knocked off the asking price, second time around.

An overfuelling injector can indeed cause a piston to be holed.

If you still have Piezo injectors in your car (Mercedes did not replace all of them with solenoid, they repaired some) you may have a recourse to assistance from Mercedes, as it is accepted by Mercedes that their Piezo injectors were not fit for purpose.

Simple way to tell is by pulling the plastic cover and looking at the sticker on the ECU. It will say "solenoid" in you do not have Piezo injectors, or if they were replaced.
If there is a hole in the piston you should also find Diesel in the oil.

Thanks for that information. I will check with the garage as to what injector is in it. I have been on to Mercedes direct about the injector issue which may have created this problem but they refuse to acknowledge any such problem existed back when this car was built.

 

[tpn]

Thanks for that information. I will check with the garage as to what injector is in it. I have been on to Mercedes direct about the injector issue which may have created this problem but they refuse to acknowledge any such problem existed back when this car was built.

I think that if they argued that in Court a Judge, when presented with the abundant evidence, would be obliged to disregard all other arguments that they put forward. Get everything in writing, just in case.

 

[rf065]

I think that if they argued that in Court a Judge, when presented with the abundant evidence, would be obliged to disregard all other arguments that they put forward. Get everything in writing, just in case.

I wouldn't go down that road, if Mercedes go to court, they go with the best QC's that money can buy. Best chance is with a small claims court where they probably wouldn't even bother showing up.

 

[tpn]

Courts are about credibility -denying a Piezo injector problem will ruin their credibility and the rest of their submissions have to be treated with incredulity. Does not matter how good they QC is, you cannot defend the indefensible.
Obviously if a small claims court will take your case for restitution up to what Mercedes has quoted, that is the way to go. Small claims court England £10,000; Scotland £5000.00

 

[rf065]

Courts are about credibility -denying a Piezo injector problem will ruin their credibility and the rest of their submissions have to be treated with incredulity. Does not matter how good they QC is, you cannot defend the indefensible.
Obviously if a small claims court will take your case for restitution up to what Mercedes has quoted, that is the way to go. Small claims court England £10,000; Scotland £5000.00

I'm not a QC, but I could argue that there has been a problem with piezo injectors which Mercedes recalled and rectified, and then claim that there have been no cases of any holed pistons in any of these engine anyway. Where would a judge go from here, without a catalogue of people coming forward with holed pistons any judge would have to decide in Mercedes favour.

 

[Craiglxviii]

I'm not a QC, but I could argue that there has been a problem with piezo injectors which Mercedes recalled and rectified, and then claim that there have been no cases of any holed pistons in any of these engine anyway. Where would a judge go from here, without a catalogue of people coming forward with holed pistons any judge would have to decide in Mercedes favour.

He or she can order a download of all MB U.K. authorised warranty repair relating to pistons and injectors. It’s a search that should take their Customer Experience team about a minute to do.

 

[rf065]

He or she can order a download of all MB U.K. authorised warranty repair relating to pistons and injectors. It’s a search that should take their Customer Experience team about a minute to do.

You cannot do that without a High Court Order, last I heard, that started at a minimum £10,000! Do you really think Mercedes would give this information out if you just asked?

 

[tpn]

I'm not a QC, but I could argue that there has been a problem with piezo injectors which Mercedes recalled and rectified, and then claim that there have been no cases of any holed pistons in any of these engine anyway. Where would a judge go from here, without a catalogue of people coming forward with holed pistons any judge would have to decide in Mercedes favour.

The scenario that was alluded to was where Mercedes, in court, deny that they had an injector problem. That can very easily be proven to be no only disingenuous, but an attempt to mislead. Proofs, after that, for the plaintiff will carry far more weight.

Notwithstanding that, it is very easy to show that defective injectors have caused piston deformities down through the years, so that point is not moot.
It is a well known fact that if power is momentarily withdrawn from a Piezo injector that that injector will stay open and will over-fuel ad infinitum... and over-fuelling will lead to piston damage.

Then there is the argument as to why a so called reliable engine will develop a holed piston at 42K miles. The case presented would be that of a defective engine rather than a defective injector.
Not being serviced at a Main Dealer will not suffice either.
Obviously a lot of presumptions here, but I rest my case.
They will argue that once the manufacturers warranty expired the onus falls on the reseller, but they can be a notice party

 

[mioba]

No work done recently other than an new oil cooler. Has a phone call from Inchcape Mercedes Oxford who tell me Mercedes Benz will offer no good will and they want £13,743.00 to fit a full remanufactured engine. The lesson here is never buy a diesel Mercedes without FSH and never buy any Merc older than than six years old even with low mileage as they will not help at all. In fact the best lesson is don't buy a Merc full stop. Scrapyard here it goes.

Not bitter much.
One cannot forsee such issues and its nothing to do with the age of car.

How many times have you been a customer of customer of MB directly - thus what goodwill have you earned?
Goodwill has a meaning - it is earned and not a right.

Your call on the scrapyard and route of action. As mention many times any decent indy would see you you right at a fraction of the cost. I still cannot see how a injector can damage a piston.....

 

[mioba]

What's odd about an independent car dealer that does not give warranty. Three months was the offer and that has long passed, and like most, are not worth the paper they are written on. I have had the car a year since purchase. This car was built when Mercedes Benz were riddled with injector problems. This know doubt has the original injectors that were causing engine failures. https://www.carsuk.net/mercedes-fixes-diesel-injector-problems/

hindsight is great

 

[KennyN]

Bottom line is , according to the dealers , your engine is fubar`d so no amount of looking into this or that will be of any help to you regarding getting the vehicle back on the road , or scrapped.

You have two options :

Get the car removed from the MD to the scrapyard , take what £££ they give you and move on and buy a Honda Jazz.

Get the car removed to a recommended Indy who will re-assess the problem and you can make a call from there , whether it be fitting a used motor or repairing the damage if possible.

I understand your frustration but there is a way out , all be it at a cost.

K

 

[tpn]

You cannot do that without a High Court Order, last I heard, that started at a minimum £10,000! Do you really think Mercedes would give this information out if you just asked?

Very easy, they are summonsed as well as the reseller. Counsel for the plaintiff will ask for voluntary disclosure. If that is not forthcoming he/she will request the judge to make the order. Such requests will usually be complied with.

 

[rf065]

Very easy, they are summonsed as well as the reseller. Counsel for the plaintiff will ask for voluntary disclosure. If that is not forthcoming he/she will request the judge to make the order. Such requests will usually be complied with.

If Mercedes had a holed piston problem, I'm sure we would all have heard of it by now. The fact is, no-one has a holed piston problem which would suggest Mercedes are not accountable. Besides, the scenario where Mercedes have to supply the info you suggested, will only come from a High Court order which will cost at least ,£10,000.

 

[tpn]

If Mercedes had a holed piston problem, I'm sure we would all have heard of it by now. The fact is, no-one has a holed piston problem which would suggest Mercedes are not accountable. Besides, the scenario where Mercedes have to supply the info you suggested, will only come from a High Court order which will cost at least ,£10,000.

Nope
I had rested my case but:
Do you accept that Mercedes had a problem with injectors.? Massive amount of evidence on this.

Do you accept that, without specific reference to Mercedes, it is a known fact that faulty injectors can cause piston damage, to include a hole in the piston?
Again a multitude of verifiable evidence on this.

.....and if your answers are in the negative to all of above, have you a verifiable explanation as to why a properly serviced and cared for 42K miles OM651 engine would develop a hole in the piston?. And yes, proper procedure is to exchange documents voluntarily, otherwise you ask the judge to make the order.
I have done it often enough. That's it from me.