Not happy with mercedes

[RoyDavis]

Some of you guys/gals might of read my post in the other section that i was taking my car in to get the rust problem solved.

They told me they would replace all four wings and repair all four doors but only the bottom sections bellow the trims. I picked it up last night and was in a bit of a rush as i got there late so i had a rough look around and all seemed ok so drove off, now after a proper inspection in the sunshine im not happy. The front wings have been replaced but they haven't been blended into the rest of the car and it sticks out like a sore thumb and looks like a totally different colour against the door and bumper, same goes for the bottom of the doors. The rear wings haven't been replaced at all they have just been slightly blended but you can see where the blending stops, i know they haven't been replaced because there was a small parking dent in one and its still there. There is also blemishes on the drivers door, small bubbles in the paint where its been sprayed.
On top of all that the car wasnt cleaned properly when it was returned, i was expecting a full valet, or was i expecting too much?

In general im just not happy with the standard of service, maybe my expectations were too high? But i dont like excepting second best, if a job is to be done then it should be done properly i say.

Anyway im planning to give them a call on tuesday and let them know im not happy with it and see what they say, im expecting an argument because they haven't seemed all that helpful.

Also they had it for 8 days, 10 days including the weekend and said they wouldn't give me a courtesy car because it was warranty work, would i be asking too much if i told them i want one if it has to go back in again?

I just want to get the general feel from you guys of what level of service you would expect from them.

 

[jibcl500]

The point is is warrenty work, its not costing you or the dealer to fix this MB will be footing the bill.
You possibly saw my issue with the bonnet opening at 60, my CL went to MB cambs and they took the car to the MB approved body shop, CR@P would be the best way to describe the job done, since the cars been back with me Ive had to remove and refit the front bumper properly, both front inner wheels ache covers, replace the broken straps that hold the bumper tow covers in place, polish out damage done to the front bumper, refit trim correctly on the lower front wing. Resolve engine issues because the removed the bonnet and then left the car outside with no cover so all in all I wouldnt recommend them or use them again. Car went back twice because it wasnt right.......

I suggest you take it back and make sure you list all the problems you have, bubbles in the paint is due to moist on the surface before painting, look for fish eyes int he paint (small dots) also check the cars been put back together properly.

Best of luck, best go softly softly to start with............

jib

 

[jberks]

The quality of the repair is totally down to the bodyshop that did the work and not MB who have paid for the repair in good faith. So don't be hard on MB. You have every right to expect a perfect repair. When my last E was done it was perfect (every time) but the dealer used a very reputable local shop at the time.

We have some warranty work done on my Dad's E220 last year and found they'd switched bodyshops. The work was a joke. They simply blew some paint over the corrosion and even painted the mud under the wheelarch.

A few choice words with the bodyshop manager (Misrepresentation, fraud, trading standards - that type of thing) and it came back perfect. Theyt even sorted a minor scrape on the bumper FOC.

Take it back and tell them to do it again.

 

[eGuru]

As per jberks it is down to the bodyshop to make sure the work is up to standard. When I picked my car from the bodyshop after warranty works, it had had the best valet I had seen for a long time!
I was dealing with MBs own bodyshop at Bedford and was very pleased with the service provided.
Who did you deal with?

 

[RoyDavis]

I dealt with the MB dealership in newbury, i live in reading but they told me they dont have a bodyshop so i tried the newbury branch and they took it no probs, they took photos etc and sent it to MBUK and they came back saying they'd replace all the wings and repair all the doors, the wings were on back order for germany but as soon as they came in i took it down to them and left it in their hands.

I understand its not the branches fault or the person ive been dealing with so i dont want to go in there guns blazing with them but they are the middle people that can pass on the fact that im not happy, i assumed they had their own bodyshop in site and they would do a perfect job but perhaps i was wrong

 

[roofless]

if its a met paint it very hard to mach esp silver ect its a comon comp but i dont think you will get any joy from the bodyshop unless you can talk mb into a total respray

 

[philharve]

Persistence pays!

Hi All

I had major work done on all 4 wings, bonnet, and a couple doors (re: slight surface rust) necessitating repainting. The car's body panels were taken back to bare metal, were sealed against further corrosion and several layers of paint was applied, each layer being baked on. The top coat is a dark blue metallic (MB call it green black) and was professionally colour matched against adjacent panels and aged prior to its application. The roof and boot lid and 2 of the doors were not repainted but the colour match between adjacent body panels was faultless thanks to spectrographic computer matching. There were no paint defects that I could discover. The car looked new, better than new in fact because the paint chips had been eliminated and a gouge in a rear wing due to another careless driver had been removed. The paint thickness is now what it should be on a Mercedes.

Almost 18 months on and the car looks no different - spotless. I would have no qualms about using the same bodyshop again. The car wasn't valeted before being returned to me but I found no evidence that the bodyshop operatives ever having been inside the car. They had washed the outside though. I was without my car just 4 days.

A repair was done to a corroded window channel whilst the car was in the hands of the original owner. It began to appear at 18 months after leaving the showroom. The rust was repaired by another bodyshop but it soon broke out again and the owner sold the car because MB were being uncooperative wrt second warranty claims. I purchased the car but was not informed of the rust issue until some months later I discovered it when washing the car. I pursued a warranty claim with the MB dealership and was successful - persistence pays - and the repair was repaired a second time but this time by my current bodyshop who subsequently did all the recent repair work. I conclude that there can be a huge difference in the quality of work between MB-approved bodyshops. Being 'MB-approved' means diddly-squat in reality!

Both bodyshops that worked on my car were MB-approved but the second was in a class of its own and it became national champion several times. The first bodyshop is still in business but were fired by MB who won't pay out for a quick 'blow over' to cure rust which will quickly break out again.

Don't blame MB for bad repairs, it's the bodyshop's responsibility. A perfect paint job is easily possible by a reputable bodyshop.

I would like to add that MB dealerships can sometimes be criticised because they often take an intransigent stance towards some claims, e.g. they refused to entertain the original owner's second warranty claim (re: window channel) but they gave into me after I provided evidence in the form of the MB policy on faulty warranty work. Bad repairs have to be made good. A dealership can't refuse but that doesn't seem to stop some of them from trying.

However, this didn't stop corrosion subsequently breaking out in other places necessitating extensive repairs. This corrosion was slight and no body panels were replaced thanks to early detection by my indie. Previously I had my car serviced at the MB dealership but they never detected the corrosion which must have been present. I concluded that the dealership was probably skimping on servicing and probably skimping on inspections for early signs of the rust bug. I voted with my feet and took my servicing needs to an indie. The MB dealership keep trying to win me back though.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Phil, whats the name of your body shop ? I trusted the people who repainted my rust which cost me £1100.00!! They made no attempt to blend in one r/w/arch what-so-ever. Trouble is it takes direct bright light at the right angle to become obvious!!
So wont be using them again..........wonder how much the so called 'Life Time Warrenty' is actually worth??

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Hi All

I pursued a warranty claim with the MB dealership and was successful - persistence pays - and the repair was repaired a second time but this time by my current bodyshop who subsequently did all the recent repair work. I conclude that there can be a huge difference in the quality of work between MB-approved bodyshops. Being 'MB-approved' means diddly-squat in reality!

Both bodyshops that worked on my car were MB-approved but the second was in a class of its own and it became national champion several times. The first bodyshop is still in business but were fired by MB who won't pay out for a quick 'blow over' to cure rust which will quickly break out again.

Don't blame MB for bad repairs, it's the bodyshop's responsibility. A perfect paint job is easily possible by a reputable bodyshop.

I would like to add that MB dealerships can sometimes be criticised because they often take an intransigent stance towards some claims,
REGARDS

Phil

A couple of excellent points made here, which I suspect may be more prevalent than we would hope.

Firstly, it is not unkown for an MB Franchise not to have its own body shop. This seems tp place them at the mercy of what happened here - namely apply to MB UK for authority to proceed and send the car to the nominated "MB Approved" body shop. It is clear from several of the posts that not all MB Approved Body Shops are the same and some seem not to be very good at all. So there is a significant learning point for MB in their selection and approval process. After all, they are the "customer" and pay the bills in this exercise, with their commercial reputation put at risk by the inferior provider.

I am certain that if I ran a Franchise, or indeed any garage, I would select a suitable body shop and form a good working relationship with them. That would assure my customers of good work, would ensure the body shop had all my work, and hopefully would benefit me by achieving the most competitive rates, and the body shop by achieving reference sales. Such a body shop should have no problem achieving MB Approval.

It is not difficult, but it does require a business like approach. I won't shirk from giving harsh feedback when things have been done badly, but I much prefer giving (and receiving) positive feedback when things go well.

 

[roofless]

it might be the bodyshop cant cope with the volume from the mb dealer as this seems to be a real prob with mbs of a cert age some owners are lucky to be in the right area thats served by a top bodyshop with all the advanced tec tools most bodyshops will match the paint from the code then from a shade chart for that code to best match to the car by eye then order the paint in from eg the spray store

 

[philharve]

Keith J Rule & Son

Phil, whats the name of your body shop ? I trusted the people who repainted my rust which cost me £1100.00!! They made no attempt to blend in one r/w/arch what-so-ever. Trouble is it takes direct bright light at the right angle to become obvious!!
So wont be using them again..........wonder how much the so called 'Life Time Warrenty' is actually worth??

Hi Mr Teddy Bear

They are called 'Keith J Rule & Son' and are located in Nanpean, near St Austell, Cornwall. They are pretty much dead centre and very convenient if you live anywhere in the county. There are full details elsewhere in the Forum.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[philharve]

it might be the bodyshop cant cope with the volume from the mb dealer as this seems to be a real prob with mbs of a cert age some owners are lucky to be in the right area thats served by a top bodyshop with all the advanced tec tools most bodyshops will match the paint from the code then from a shade chart for that code to best match to the car by eye then order the paint in from eg the spray store

Hi roofless

I did once inquire about 'volumes' and indeed superior workmanship does attract more customers which, in turn, enhances the bodyshop's reputation. This scenario suggests that a backlog of work should start to build up but it doesn't quite work like that.

I discussed this with Keith Rule. He stated that successful bodyshops tend to attract vehicles of similar make & quality. I've seen MBs, BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris being worked upon at Rules but I've never seen a bent Ford Fiesta (say) there. Keith stated that there is a natural, self-regulation process involved which produces a steady flow of work. Their bookings are usual full for several weeks ahead but with the latest tools and professional skills their throughput is actually higher than less well equipped bodyshops.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[roofless]

i agree with what you are saying but bodyshops of that status are far and few & thats the prob a lot of owners are sent to lesser bodyshops prob in line with fiestas ect

 

[RoyDavis]

i agree with what you are saying but bodyshops of that status are far and few & thats the prob a lot of owners are sent to lesser bodyshops prob in line with fiestas ect

This is where i think the problem is, im led to believe i am dealing with mercedes and with their outstanding reputation in the car market i am expecting the best, maybe if i was dealing with a company of lower standard i would expect the level of quality i have received and be happy with it. You wouldn't expect rolls royce to have their cars sprayed by the same people that do say rover or fiat etc and i dont expect that from mercedes either but this seems to be what is happening by sending their work out to third party bodyshops that deal with cars across the board rather than prestigious cars only.
Its something i think mercedes need to address as its their reputation that gets affected rather than the body shop

 

[jberks]

This is where i think the problem is, im led to believe i am dealing with mercedes and with their outstanding reputation in the car market i am expecting the best, maybe if i was dealing with a company of lower standard i would expect the level of quality i have received and be happy with it. You wouldn't expect rolls royce to have their cars sprayed by the same people that do say rover or fiat etc and i dont expect that from mercedes either but this seems to be what is happening by sending their work out to third party bodyshops that deal with cars across the board rather than prestigious cars only.
Its something i think mercedes need to address as its their reputation that gets affected rather than the body shop

To be fair, if I had a Fiat (or when I ran fords) and wanted a body repair I would have the same quality expectation that I would with the merc. Ok - the paint itself may not be quite as good, but the finish, match and lack of overspray should be equally as good.

At the end of the day you'll be paying the same per hour whatever make the metal is. The cost of paint is pretty small in the overall bill. Hence, yes I would expect RR to be sprayed by the same people as Rover. Why not? Bodywork is bodywork. I used to use a small tin pot garage at the top of my old street. You know they type, petrol pumps and one bay (gone now for houses). But the mechanic was a top notch bodywork man and over the years he did work on all our cars. He took my battered and rusty escorts and made them showroom on more than one occasion. I'd have had no qualms letting him loose on the merc.

Its understandable that dealers send the work out. After all, few MB dealers will have the volume of work required to justify the cost of a bodyshop. So they send out to an MB approved shop instead.

What I do wonder about though is why the dealer doesn't QA the work before you receive it and what feedback there is to MB when, as in this (and our) case, you reject the work.

 

[RoyDavis]

Agreed the fault is down to the body shop but i do believe mercedes have a responsibility to check the quality of the body shops work and take the necessary actions needed if their customers are not happy as its their reputation on the line, not the body shops.

Its going back to mercedes tomorrow for the manager to have a look, will let you know how it goes!

 

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Has anybody ever seen a Ford paint finish without Orange Peel hi-lites?

 

[philharve]

MB-approved does not necessarily equate to ISO9001-approved

Agreed the fault is down to the body shop but i do believe mercedes have a responsibility to check the quality of the body shops work and take the necessary actions needed if their customers are not happy as its their reputation on the line, not the body shops.

Its going back to mercedes tomorrow for the manager to have a look, will let you know how it goes!

Hi Roy

If my experience is anything to go by, the MB dealership took no interest in the recent repairs to my C230K. They delegated this task to the bodyshop. I believe this was the correct decision because the dealership does not have its own bodyshop.

However, MB HQ did take an interest in the quality of workmanship and I'm sure they would have taken action if there had been a history of poor performance by the bodyshop. I've known it to happen before.

But what makes my champion bodyshop different from other bodyshops is that their operations conform to ISO9001 and they produce a feedback report, with photographs, of each stage of the repair process. This report is freely available to MB HQ for inspection - they are paying for the warranty work after all - and I had a glimpse of it too.

If the repair was imperfect, the report could be inspected and it might give a clue as to what went wrong. The bodyshop assured me that imperfections would be made good at the expense of the bodyshop, not MB HQ. MB HQ fix the costs of repairs, often much to the annoyance of the bodyshop, so there is a strong incentive for the bodyshop not to make any mistakes.

I have had little experience of bodyshops but it is my belief few would go to this trouble to ensure the repair was perfect first time, every time. This is where being ISO9001-approved makes a big difference but how many MB-approved bodyshops are also ISO9001-approved? Not that many I suspect.

I am willing to bet that most MB owners believe that taking their vehicles to an MB-approved bodyshop anywhere in the country should result in the same standard of repair. This is just not true but I believe it ought to be.

REGARDS

Phil

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Hi Roy

If my experience is anything to go by, the MB dealership took no interest in the recent repairs to my C230K. They delegated this task to the bodyshop. I believe this was the correct decision because the dealership does not have its own bodyshop.

But what makes my champion bodyshop different from other bodyshops is that their operations conform to ISO9001 and they produce a feedback report, with photographs, of each stage of the repair process.

I have had little experience of bodyshops but it is my belief few would go to this trouble to ensure the repair was perfect first time, every time.

This is where being ISO9001-approved makes a big difference but how many MB-approved bodyshops are also ISO9001-approved? Not that many I suspect.

There are several important points in this posting, and it is salutary to think that they are having to be restated or relearned when we have been in the era of quality assurance for many years now.

Firstly, delegation to a specialist is good, but it does imply some continuing interest in the process. Delegation without any further interest in the outcome is abdication and that is reckless.

Secondly is the point of accredititation to ISO9001. I worked for 12 years for an engineering company providing parts to the automotive industry worldwide. It was impossible to sell to any original equipment manufacturere (OEM) without evidence of being accredited to ISO14001, the environmental standard. So customers can influence the supply chain very easily - just write it into the terms of business.

Thirdly, "right first time" is well understood in manufacturing industry. It is used as a metric and performance criterion by which managers are judged. Any business which does not get it right first time ends up reprocessing their own scrap, at their own expense - which is not funny. On the Toyota production line, when a car does not pass the online inspection it is placed offline in a quarantine area and the worker who did not get it right must rectify the problem at the end of the shift - when his chums have gone home!

So, lots of meat in this excellent post. We used to have a motor industry in the UK. Failure to implement these sorts of lessons probably played a large part in its demise. Seems as though the service industries supporting the motor trade in the UK may yet have to learn these lessons? :???:

 

[RoyDavis]

Update for you guys........

Went back to MB with the car and saw the manager and he agreed that its not right and should go back to the body shop, he suggested a meeting with himself, me and the body shop.
After not hearing anything for a couple of days i called the dealership and left a message, i later got a call from the body shop who asked for me to go there so they could see it, it appears the dealership are trying to wash their hands of it and want me to deal direct with the body shop which i was a bit annoyed about.

So i took it in this morning and both directors and one of the sprayers saw the problem straight away and agreed its totally wrong, they told me MB doesn't pay them enough to allow proper blending into the other panels, i told them thats between them and MB and not really my problem and i want the car as it should be. They've agreed to have it back and try to rectify the problem by going over the panels with a darker shade but have found out the one they put on originally is the darkest so now they want to involve the paint company.

Its going back in on thursday for 2 or 3 days, i told them i'd rather they have it longer if it means it comes out right rather than them trying to rush the car back to me. I have a strong feeling this is going to be a very long nightmare and could go on for quite some time!