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OM603 - Oil/filter change affects running - or injector cleaner?

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by d215yq, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Location:
    Barcelona
    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    Just changed the oil/filter on my car - after 20k (motorway) miles and 13 months.. yes I'll do it earlier next time if ti lasts that long! It's noticably quieter and smoother at idle/through most of the rev range but also seems to miss a bit/vibrate a bit more at 1.1k rpm/2.2 k rpm even when in neutral. It's only these two points in the rev range it's apparent. Now it's always given off noises/vibrations/judder, particularly at 1100rpm in any gear but also a little in 2200 rpm in any gear, but I've done nearly 100k miles like this and just assumed it's broken Anti-Jerk/warn drivetrain/badly balanced camshaft balcancer etc and in short too complicated to fix (as all garages its been to have also thought) It's not really a bother as 99% of the time in the car is cruising outside these ranges.

    But now since the oil change/I put in the injector cleaner I've noticed it a lot more when just revving it in neutral, it's like in constant state the car is perfectly firing/not missing but as it accelerates/decelerates through those ranges the whole engine shakes a little and misses for just a split second, enough to shake the car. But at a constant 2300rpm or idle at 700 rpm is perfectly smooth - crusing outside 1100rpm/2200rpm - so in 5th gear 40 to 50mph or 55 - 80mph the car is super smooth too, just a little vibration at 2200rpm and some transmission noises at 1100rpm...but that has always been the case. Also, although the idle seems smoother it also seems more delicate - lifting the clutch a bit soon or the fan cutting in seem to make it fluctuate/make a noise like it wants to stall more than before, where it would just carry on and was practically impossible to stall the car in first gear no matter how quick clutch was released and when the fan cutting in did not effect idle speed at all.

    Perhaps I notice because the car is smoother in general, or perhaps because I've been doing more research on how old diesles work and looking for more specific things. Or could it be the injector cleaner is affecting stuff? To ensure good emissions for the yearly test I usually just fill with 50% sunflower oil but this time I went for the injector cleaner as I've got a 4k mile roadtrip starting thursday and want it running the best it can.

    As an aside (just for reference in future) does anyone pre fill the oil filter doing a change? I've never done that and notice it takes a good 10-15 seconds (of slight metallic noise) to get oil pressure after a change (normally it's instant upon starting ) and I know fuel filters are pre-filled so maybe I've been doing it wrong not pre filling it as i think the filter takes around 1/2 litre of oil??
     
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  2. DREAMER NO2

    DREAMER NO2 Senior Member

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    Location:
    Kidderminster in Worcestershire
    Your Mercedes:
    W124 2.6E M103 1989
    All ways fill the filter with oil before fitting it if you can . But some like my W124 with the M103 engine its near impossible to get any oil inside the oil filter because the filter is fitted upside down and any oil you get in there falls out screwing it in to place. And the remainder runs down the back of the engine block . I do try to get a little in the filter if i can .But i never start the engine right away, but i do turn the key on and off not letting it start for a few times to let it spin over until the oil pressure build up .
     
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  3. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    S202 C250TD, S123 240TD
    You can't pre-fill these type of MB element oil filters, the housing just drains down.

    250 K miles...ever had the timing chain checked for stretch? That retards the point of injection.
    If it's not too worn, it can be compensated for by adjusting the IP position, via its mounting bolts.
     
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  4. OP
    d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    It's 290k now...and no, never investigated injectors, IP, or timing chain, is this time when they start to play up? The head gasket was changed on 240k 3 years ago...i asume they would be checking that then as they had to take the chain off? Would there be other signs (like a chain rattle, or other obvious misbehavings).

    Perhaps I'm wrong with the "misfiring" as there is no puff of smoke or any smoke whatsoever when it's doing it, and I've seen misfring ones on the internet and they all produce smoke. It also gets good mpg so I think it's burning everything...just there's a microsecond where it doesn't seem quite "right" going through those rpm and where it seems to hesitate...that converts into gentle vibration/noise when in gear. Is there any reason why it would be like this at only 1100 and 2200rpm and no other point. I'm thinking it's not coinicdence one is exactly double the other...would love to know as its always been abit funny around these rpms ever since I bought it...become part of its character and as no mechanic has dared give an opinion when I've mentioned it it's just something to live with. I'm assuming as it's all mechanical it won't suddenly become undriveable and will just maybe get worse over time, maybe not...

    It's still on my to do list to play with the electronic anti jerk solenoid that also changes timing on the pump by rotating part of it a bit, I don't think there's a way to manually adjust this though as it requires an electric pulse to work and the electrics that control this have always been broken so it can't be "held" at a different place. As the autos didn't have this I'm assumign the lack of this working would not affect the signs I'm seeing in neutral, but may well be the cause of the vibrations in gear (the torque converter smoothed it out in the auto versions thus the system was not needed).
     
  5. brianbrian

    brianbrian Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    w124 250D, SL129-deisel
    Have you changed main,small, and tank, fuel filters.Checked pipes, fuel injection pump for air getting in.
     
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  6. OP
    d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    I've not checked anything for air (no idea how to do that) but replaced the main filter 2yrs ago, and the pre filter/all engine fuel hoses 6 months ago as the hoses were leaking diesel. The change 6 months ago made it run better. Not touched the tank filter (tank strainer?), it doesn't look something that's possible for me to do and hours of labour involving tank removal IIRC?
     
  7. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    S202 C250TD, S123 240TD
    Tank strainer comes out in minutes with the right sized tool (can be made from a big bolt).
    It's best to have the tank low on fuel to limit the flow out.
     
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  8. OP
    d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    Thanks, not somethign I can do in public place though if there's a risk of 10L of diesel going everywhere. Is it likely to be causing the symptoms before I look into it? I can see it causign general rough running but at only exactly 1100rpm and 2200rpm? I assume it would affect it more at higher loads/rpms if it was air in fuel/fuel blockage related?

    For example when I'm in the mountains I can climb 900m in about 8km and car will happily do that without any problems at around 3k rpm in appropriate gear and no missing/vibration, so it must be able to get a good amount of fuel??
     
  9. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    Yep, I don't think so either as it would get worse with fuel flow. But at that age and mileage, cleaning it is a good idea.
     
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  10. OP
    d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    Your Mercedes:
    1987 W124 300D 250k
    After driving it 300 miles ive noticed it runs smoother generally so I think that is why I notice the rough bits a bit more than usual...

    Strangely it also runs 5 degrees colder than its ever done - now just under 95 degrees instead of just under 100 it's always ran at since I changed the thermostat 4 yrs ago ...not sure if this is coincidence or if its related to the cleaner or the oil change - it's the first time it has 15W40 "for diesel" semi synthetic as before I've always used 10W40 non specific...

    I suppose it could just be the gauge going out of spec...but out of interest and perhaps for the future, with all other things being equal does a slightly lower running temperature mean it's running more efficiently or less? Logic tells me it's a good thing as it's wasting less energy to heat...but I'm never sure how these things work...
     

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