Ouch! My seats. My back.

[hawk20]

Then what was the A class like,,I know that you did long mileages, from what I recall when I sat in one of yours, it was a mixture of both quite high, and the leg room was not bad either.

These seat comfort things can affect people later in life, when my SL is parked by the kerb, my ex can hardly get out, so I raise the car and the seat.

Well many won't believe what I say. But those with a tape measure will find that the A class seats (169 series from 2005) are as big as those in the ML or the R class. That is in squab width and depth, and the backrest. And they are very comfortable. We did over 2.000 miles in a fortnight in France and Spain and they were fine. The legroom front and rear is as much as my E class. (Both offer more than the R class). For £80 you get the comfort seat option which has the same seats as normal but with tilt adjustment for the squab and adjustable lumbar support. I had those.

I also paid the extra £115 to get the steering column adjustable for reach as well as rake, which I think makes a huge difference to comfort especially for taller drivers. My wife likes the steering wheel fully in; I like it fully out.

B class has the same seats BTW. But adjustable reach for the steering wheel as well as rake is standard.

IIRC the facelifted A's offer 'comfort seats' as standard on the dearer models (avantgarde etc).

BTW A class seats are high off the ground but that is due to the sandwhich floor raising the whole saloon interior higher off the ground. But the seats are no higher off the floor than my E class. The driving position is perfectly straight with wheel and pedals exactly straight in front of you as they should be. Technically a more correct driving position than an E class or a 5 series, neither of which are completely straight due to the massive gearbox tunnel. Excellent IMO.
http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/con...ars/models/a-class/w169/overview/comfort.html

 

[television]

Thanks Hawk,,,I wonder what I will end up driving in 15 years time

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Thanks Hawk,,,I wonder what I will end up driving in 15 years time

I would favour a JCB. High seating position, good view, no problems with kerbing or kerb height. No problems being boxed in when parked either!

 

[hawk20]

Thanks Hawk,,,I wonder what I will end up driving in 15 years time

I think we'll all be surprised even by the next 3-5 years or so. Hydrogen cars?

In the mean time, the new 2.2 litre diesel is a real advance in economy and emissions. Sadly and oddly, the new 3 litre diesel is hardly any advance at all despite the Blue Efficiency name. On the ML the new 3 litre does a bit over 31 to the gallon instead of 30. Big deal. And the emissions are still over 225. Must be something new coming there.

What do you think of the CGI petrols?

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I think we'll all be surprised even by the next 3-5 years or so. Hydrogen cars?

In the mean time, the new 2.2 litre diesel is a real advance in economy and emissions. Sadly and oddly, the new 3 litre diesel is hardly any advance at all despite the Blue Efficiency name. On the ML the new 3 litre does a bit over 31 to the gallon instead of 30. Big deal. And the emissions are still over 225. Must be something new coming there.

What do you think of the CGI petrols?

Talking to the engineers at Caterpillar, they feel there is a huge upside to be tapped in diesel technology - approaching 90% efficiency is their current guess.

A problem that all alternative vehicles currently have is in the environment (and cash) costs of developing and producing the vehicles, producing and distributing the fuels.

CGI is certainly a big step forward for petrol engines and approaches the efficiency and economy of yesterday's diesels, but I don't know how much more can be wrung out of that technology. The fuel contains rather less energy than diesel (and the most modern petrols are more expensive to produce), so I suspect that will always limit their potential?

 

[television]

Just some samples of thoughts.


The Mercedes C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY announced today is the fourth BlueEFFICIENCY model in this range. The new Mercedes C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY consumes more than ten percent less fuel than the current version of the C-Class.

The Mercedes C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY is powered by a V6 engine that delivers 215 kW/292 hp and 365 Nm of torque which is 15 kW/20 hp and 15 Nm more than the current V6 engine with port injection. With this engine the Mercedes C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY needs 8.3 liters of fuel to travel 100 km and emits 193 g/km of CO2.

The Mercedes C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY has a limited top speed of 250 km/h and can get from 0 to 100 km/h/n in 6.2 seconds.


mercedes Press Release:

Mercedes-Benz is introducing the C 350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY featuring second generation direct fuel injection as the fourth BlueEFFICIENCY model in the C-Class. Compared to the current C 350, the new saloon consumes more than ten percent less fuel. At the same time, the innovative V6 engine delivers 15 percent more power and already meets future EU5 emission limits. As such, the new Mercedes-Benz C 350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY combines driving pleasure, safety, economy and environmental

 

[Rory]

BTW A class seats are high off the ground but that is due to the sandwhich floor raising the whole saloon interior higher off the ground. But the seats are no higher off the floor than my E class.

I've only briefly driven A and B Class as courtesy cars and sitting in a normal car position, but higher up, does feel weird but I suppose you quickly get used to it.

Agree with your earlier comments about SUV's generally being comfortable, although wheel and suspension choice is still critcal. I've driven fairly long distances in US SUVs and they're sublime, but they're softly sprung and on massively deep section tyres.

 

[PeterCLK]

This is one of the reasons why I'm interested in the GLK if it ever comes here.

 

[st4]

I think we'll all be surprised even by the next 3-5 years or so. Hydrogen cars?

Alas not - not the neccessary infrastructure and will take too long to get us ready for H2 cars. I am not saying they are not feasible, but it will be a gradual take up. Battery cars seem another interesting direction and this is an area thats advancing readily.

In the mean time, the new 2.2 litre diesel is a real advance in economy and emissions. Sadly and oddly, the new 3 litre diesel is hardly any advance at all despite the Blue Efficiency name. On the ML the new 3 litre does a bit over 31 to the gallon instead of 30. Big deal. And the emissions are still over 225. Must be something new coming there.

No, and the 2.2 engine also up in power, i.e. 250cdi guise. In real net Co2 terms MB fleet CO2 is way down as the new E250cdi will pinch sales from the V6 variants. In the 211 range I can see the point and need for the V6 variants, but not in the 212 with a 4pot diesel churning out N/A V12 levels of Torque, and V6 diesel level of peak power with advanced 4pot diesel MPG levels.

What do you think of the CGI petrols?

An irrelevance to cater for those who simply won't buy a diesel. A minority car with minority appeal. The AMG varients can justify petrol power, but for the everyday models I'll have a 250cdi and every option I can afford....

 

[Alex M Grieve]

An irrelevance to cater for those who simply won't buy a diesel. A minority car with minority appeal. The AMG variants can justify petrol power, but for the everyday models I'll have a 250cdi and every option I can afford....

I'll put you down as "no strong views" then.

You're not on that stuff Panzer is on just now are you? You both seem to be in particularly good humour this evening!

 

[st4]

I'll put you down as "no strong views" then.

You're not on that stuff Panzer is on just now are you? You both seem to be in particularly good humour this evening!

The sun is shining which has had a strange strange effect on me, the panzer too is probably not used to the sun light either, but more than likely is on his 15th tin of stella and Mrs Panzer probably lost 15 teeth :lol:

I've also just been at the scottish meet, driven an SL 107 and W220 S500L so been fun day

 

[Alex M Grieve]

The sun is shining which has had a strange strange effect on me, the panzer too is probably not used to the sun light either, but more than likely is on his 15th tin of stella and Mrs Panzer probably lost 15 teeth :lol:

I've also just been at the scottish meet, driven an SL 107 and W220 S500L so been fun day

Could just be "Post SL euphoria" then - particularly severe after an 107 on a sunny day. Panzer may still have the residual symptoms of the AMG experience - thank goodness they didn't let him drive it!

 

[st4]

Could just be "Post SL euphoria" then - particularly severe after an 107 on a sunny day. Panzer may still have the residual symptoms of the AMG experience - thank goodness they didn't let him drive it!

He'd be half way to Poland if they did :lol:

The SL was a magical experience, I've driven it before but with the roof down much better. The LWB S class wasn't bad either, especially with a 5litre V8 :mrgreen:

Now the eurphoria is over, the rain is back, I can return to posting on one of herbies threads.

 

[EGBM]

Drove for 40 miles today.,

Stepped out of the car like b****y Quasimodo.

I've tilted, turned, moved and all ways it doesn't help.

I'm not happy - this car's been a jinx.

Now then Seeker, I hope you're having more luck. It's taken me 9000 miles to find THE seat position in the CLS, which seems quite a long time and exceeds even my lowest expectations of myself. However, I think I was spending far too much time trying to replicate a comfortable seat position in a previous car and it just wasn't possible. Having taken the great advice on this forum and supported my thighs etc it has worked wonders.

Also, may I suggest you have your back checked out - I've seen posts on here by people who were in agony only to discover they had poorly backs in the first place.

I hope you get it sorted mate.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Cheers.

I have got a bad back, have had since I was 19 - too much pressure on a couple of vertebrae due to a hollow back and I see an osteopath occasionally. It's causing other problems and the last thing I really need is a car seat aggravating it.

As it happens I'm looking at chopping it in for an e-class. The seats are a bit softer than a CLK.

 

[hawk20]

Cheers.

I have got a bad back, have had since I was 19 - too much pressure on a couple of vertebrae due to a hollow back and I see an osteopath occasionally. It's causing other problems and the last thing I really need is a car seat aggravating it.

As it happens I'm looking at chopping it in for an e-class. The seats are a bit softer than a CLK.

As someone who has had a few back operations myself, I share your concern about the need for good car seats. Couple of points. The CLK has a very frim suspension set-up. Do not under-rate the importance of this. You keep on getting jerks and shock waves to the spine which can make the pain far worse and can bring it on. Ride in an S class on air suspension and I think you will notice an amazing difference.

Avoid sports suspension. Avoid bigger wheels (In order to have the same rolling radius they have to be fitted with lower profile tyres -less depth of tyre; less rubber and air to absorb impacts. They also make no logical sense as they reduce steering feel, increase CO2 emissions, increase fuel consumption and aquaplane more easily.)

Annoyingly on the 211 E class the Avantgarde is the nicer spec but Elegance offers the best ride and more sensible wheels. You can get Avantgarde with 'comfort suspension' as a no cost option but there are very few about.

You can get E's with the airmatic suspension (magic carpet ride) and that has the advantage that you can choose -at the press of a button- comfort or sport suspension settings to suit the roads and your mood.

The new C Class has an option that lets you choose comfort or sport settings with the standard spring suspension. But there is no choice of this on the new E class (odd) unless you go for the air suspension.

I too find the E class seats much better than the CLK.

But as several have said, sitting up higher off the floor is great for bad backs. Do yourself a favour and borrow an ML or an R class for a day. Both have the same seats. Wind them up high off the floor. (Same height off floor available in both). Go for a long drive. You may be amazed as I was. I suffer in most cars but in the ML I did 6 hours non-stop and was absolutely fine. The ML has more legroom than the R class BTW.

The S class is also excellent for bad backs because you can wind the seat up to a pretty good height off the floor. You can also extend the squab for the long-legged to give ample thigh support.

If you are long legged, my back expert says always get a car with adjustable steering column (reach as well as rake) and pull the wheel back close to you. Drive with arms relaxed and well bent. Straight arm driving positions pull on the spine and cause more pain.

Lastly watch how you get in and out. Most prize themselves out on one foot and put large twisting loads on the spine in doing so. Much of the pain while driving can be caused by twisting when getting in and out.

Pretend you are wearing a mini skirt and swing both legs out and push up on both. Models do it the way chiropractors recommend.

Joy of 4x4's is they are so high up you drop out of them instead of having to push up while in a twisted position.

 

[hawk20]

Sorry to go on but it may help the OP with his back problems. Been there and it is not fun.

Fairly recently Mercedes and BMW have introduced what I think is something of a breakthrough for comfort lovers and back sufferers alike.

It is the four-way adjustable lumbar support. The normal lumbar support (as on my E class) just goes in and out but is a fixed height above the squab.

The new kind are usually electrical and scroll buttons can be used to move the lumbar support up and down as well as in and out. So if you have a tall back you may want the lumbar support higher up than someone with a shorter back and vice versa.

I have tried it on the facelifted ML (available on some model/options) and on the GL and the effect is surprisingly beneficial. Once you have it in just the right place there's a feeling of 'ooh that's nice' ; 'that's just right'.

Now available on the new E class (some model/options).

If you want it, you have to look carefully at which leather/seat/model options let you have it.

Those who grumble about MB having comfort seat options for some models (about £80 on the A and B class when I ordered mine) should note that on the BMW X5 I tried recently the 'comfort seats' are a £1,500 option. Nice though.

Sadly, I've never had the multi-contour seats from MB or the massaging ones, but maybe someone else could give a run-down on those.

 

[television]

The comfort massage seats Hawk are so very good, the rear back rest can be blown up in 3 separate places,top middle and bottom, you can have any mixture or combination.

The side bolsters you can blow up and move them in or out, when right in, they hold you tight, and you cannot slouch in the seat. The massage is neither hear nor there, but nice after a very long drive and soothing. I can move the squab forward and out, and raise it or change the angle. I also have the fans that blow warm or cool air through them.

For such a low car my SL will let me have the seat raised to max, without my head touching the roof and I am 6ft, it makes it easier to get out after a 3-4 hour session.

So from the comfort point of view, they are better than my V70R and that is the biggest compliment I could give them.
I would never have an MB without these seats, OK my back is perfect,,but maybe that is because I am fussy in what I sit in, or on

 

[Seeker_UK]

On the plus side, I have got an adjustable seat and steering wheel but no lumbar support (although my pain is in the upper back just above the lumbar area).

Perhaps buying a CLK elegance with sports suspension and 18" AMGs wasn't the best move.

I'll try the tip on getting in and out.

Best solution would be to buy a Saab 9000 Aero for day-to day use - best seats I've ever known (even better than a V70) but getting a good one would be too expensive.

 

[makings]

I've bought a 03 C200K Avantgarde due to having left knee problems with manuals. Typically, my right leg has now starting aching. I've been reading up on comfortable driving positions here and elsewhere, but no-one's mentioned their knee position. I've read that your knees should be lower than your hips, or at least level. True to form, I've got my seat low and the front of it up, so my knees are not lower than my hips, so I'll be adjusting that later...

Any other knee-related advice? I'm a bit of a freak at 5' 8" with rather short legs...

Ta,

Mike K.