Own a share in a garage for £1,000 …opinions wanted.

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
Following on from a previous thread I am exploring the feasibility of an idea and how it might work and am interested in member’s views.

The basic idea is that a group of Mercedes owners form a club, purchase a suitable property, fit it out and run it as a garage for there own benefit on an non-profit basis. The garage would be fully equipped to specialize in Mercedes cars and staffed with technicians trained with Mercedes cars.

The purpose of the club is to provide members with reasonable maintenance costs, peace of mind and complete reliability so that each member can have total confidence that the will be treated honestly and fairly, and not exposed to the profit driven mentality of some dealers.

The fundamental difference between the club garage and a commercial garage is that a commercial is there to service a car for profit, the club garage would be there to service a car at a cost that is sufficient to cover all the day to day running costs of the garage.

The garage would be run in a businesslike manner with regard to health & safety, insurance, taxes etc, the only difference would be the absence of profit and the attitude of the garage towards the member, the part owner of the garage.

All the figures below are fictitious the are there to help demonstrate the idea rather than to cost it.

As the purchase cost and the location of the property are irrelevant at the moment, let us assume that it will cost £1,500,000 to purchase the garage property and the remaining £500,000 is used to fit out and equip the garage.

Initial set up cost - Membership Fee £1,000.
2,000 Mercedes owners’ form a “club”; each member pays a one off membership fee of £1,000
2,000 members x £1,000 = £2,000,000
This money fund the initial set up cost.
£1,500,000 to purchase a suitable property for use as a garage, Circa 4,000sq feet.
£500,000 to fit out the garage with all the tools and equipment needed and pay other set up cost like legal and insurance fees.
Purchase10 clean reliable 10 year old Mercedes cars for the use of each member when the are having their cars serviced or repair.
Purchase a stock of commonly used replacement parts.
Establish a contingency fund of £25,000 to cover any (expected) unexpected costs.

Annual running costs. - £50 per hour labor charge.
The hourly labor charge funds the entire annual running costs of the garage.
Employs 1 Experienced manager to coordinate the day to day running of the garage. = £60,000 per annum
Employs 4 Mercedes trained mechanics, all top class technicians @ £35,000 X 4 = £140,000 per annum.
Employ 1 Apprentice mechanic. = £15,000 per annum
Employ 1 Parts assistant. = £15,000 per annum
Employ 1 general assistant. = £15,000 per annum
National Insurance for employees = £45,000 per annum
Pay utility bills, insurance, maintenance and other costs incurred in the day to day running of the garage. = £10,000 per annum.

The above running costs total £300,000 per annum or £5,769 per week.
If the average labor usage of the garage by each member amounts to 3 hours per year @ £50 per hour = £150
That is, £150 X 2,000 members = £300,000 or £5,769 per week.
That is approximately 40 members using the garage for 3 hours per week.

4 mechanics, (plus an apprentice) should be able to deal with 8 cars per day, that’s 2 cars @ 3 hours, to each of the 4 mechanics, the remaining 2 hours of the day are lost through annual holidays, sick leave and slack days. (Where there is insufficient work to keep all the mechanics busy)

How it might work.
It would require like-minded Mercedes owners to act collectively to bring it about. A minimum of 2,000 members would need to be recruited first before the garage is set up, these members, the collective owners, would then decide and then agree how the garage is to be run, its location, and how the annual running costs are funded.

Each member would have equal ownership rights and equal say, by way of a vote, in major policy decisions relating to all of the running and financial aspects of the club. I’m not sure exactly what the status of the club would be, I presume it would take the form of a limited company, it would be trading as a business and so subject to VAT and all the other legal obligations that goes with running a business.

To protect the interests of all the members, the whole thing would have to be tied up legally, involving Solicitor and Accountancy firms, and with proper insurance in place A voluntary elected committee would need to exist, be in regular contact and meet at regular intervals to coordinate and oversee the running of the club and resolve complaints and issues beyond the scope of the manager.

Trust and confidence.
The reputation of the garage would be of paramount importance. It would be vital that this reputation is preserved so that the trust and the confidence of all the members is maintained and that any disputes, that will arise, are resolved swiftly, fairly and completely, without this integrity the club would disintegrate.

Advantages.
A “customer” base of 2,000 members would exist before the garage is started. In theory it could be fully operational and fully trading, effectively a “going concern” from the first day of trading.

Solvent and independent of bank loans.

The Non-profit nature of the club would eliminate the possibility of a rip-off.
Member would have direct contact with a technician where it is beneficial in resolving a particular fault or problem.
Courtesy car available to all members while their car is serviced/repaired.

Where there is insufficient work to keep all the mechanics busy during slack days and where members usage of the garage is less than the 3 hours previously anticipated above, then this spare capacity could be utilized by servicing Non-MB cars for non-members, i.e. cars belonging to friends/relatives of members and/or general passing trade. The members themselves are the best word of mouth advert for the club in this regard.

If the garage income in a year is greater than the total running costs of the garage for that year, then the surplus could be divided and returned to each member or used to improve the facilities or fund new/replacement tools or equipment.

The £1,000 membership fee (Initial set up cost.) should be seen as an investment, returning an annual dividend in the form of lower maintenance costs, better service and peace of mind. The membership fee is never lost; it is tied up in a share of the property and equipment of the garage and can be retrieved, if for example a member, who wished to leave the club, sells his/her share on to a new “replacement” member.

I am interested in the reaction of forum members to the idea and whether the might join such a venture if it were local to them. This is aimed at those with Mercedes cars over 3 years of age that are out of warranty.

Dec
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,085
Reaction score
159
Your Mercedes
S class
Interesting idea, and sounds good, to date i can only see about 2000 problems...
 

JEZ.S320L

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
2,804
Reaction score
4
Location
Costa Calida, Spain
Website
www.latorreonline.es
Your Mercedes
Lincoln Navigator and a S320L Business Edition
I welcome the idea - but feel that the proposition has a massive flaw, namely;

Geographical location.

Where do you propose to obtain the 2000 members, who all live within hailing distance of the premises?

For instance - I would want it here in Spain :D
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #4
Interesting idea, and sounds good, to date i can only see about 2000 problems...

I would agree with that, the apathy of human nature.

Dec
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,085
Reaction score
159
Your Mercedes
S class
You could maybe set it up as a type of travelling roadshow/circus
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #6
I welcome the idea - but feel that the proposition has a massive flaw, namely;

Geographical location.

Where do you propose to obtain the 2000 members, who all live within hailing distance of the premises?

For instance - I would want it here in Spain :D

You would have to start your own, you would just need 1 million humans no more than an hours drive away.

Dec
 

brianbrian

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
191
Age
82
Location
cockney in the West Country
Your Mercedes
w124 250D, SL129-deisel
I think Ireland is a bit too far Paddy,for me to have my car serviced, as the expense getting there, far outway the serviceing cost even though i like Ireland and the people Regards. Brian
 

jberks

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
11,153
Reaction score
41
Location
M1, Outside lane, somewhere between Leeds and Lond
Your Mercedes
Jaguar XF 3.0 S, LR Freelander 2, Fiat 500 & Fiat Panda
And there you have the problem. To have a hope of 2000 members it would have to be somewhere congested - probably near London and that would exclude all the above plus me for starters. Also, 2000 members doesn't sound too bad if you say it quickly. But lets do some maths. Lets assume you can find 2000 members.

Assuming these are owners of older cars and higher mileage users you can expect a minimum of 3 visits per member - e.g. 2 services and 1 repair/diagnostic - I think on my low mileage 4 year old 211 I've clocked up more than that this year alone so 3 is very optomistic. But ok - 3 - thats 6000 visits per year.

You say 4 mechanics. Ok - 4 techs at an average of 2 cars ea per day over 240 working days (48 working 5 day weeks per year - which doesn't allow for sickies, ramps down - staff shortages etc etc)
480 'jobs' per mechanic - so 1920 jobs per year between them .......and 6000 jobs required ......And this doesn't allow for full engine rebuilds, gearbox strip downs or anything else that takes more than 4 hours. On these figures, any garage that had 2000 regular dedicated customers would need more like 16-20 ramps - that's one big operation! I suspect most indies count their regulars in the very low hundreds.

Then there is the price. You quote £50ph to be viable. Ok, that is cheaper than my local indie but only by maybe £15ph - A nice saving, true, but I haven't given him £1000 up front. That's 66 hours before I break even on the deal.

The idea of 'not for profit' is laudable but IMHO unrealistic. Kit is expensive. A star gizmo alone costs thousands and unless there is a reasonable profit, there won't be the funds to reinvest as things change, break etc. You'd be constantly revisiting the members asking for £5 each for some new piece of kit that most of them would never benefit from (A W140 doesn't need the latest star box). Add in 'accidents' and what funds them? E.g. On my last service, the dealer broke the windscreen. It was already at a discount so I think we can assume that after fixing that, they lost on the deal. Who would pay on a co-op? Going by posts on this forum, damage isn't exactly a rare occurence. Something has to fund it.

I'm not against private clubs as such - I'm a member of a local flying club that works very well. But, in order to make it work, we all have to muck in with everything from tractor driving and cleaning to entertaing visitors. We can't just turn up, fly and bugger off again - it's a full day's commitment. Even then, the prices aren't that much lower than commercial operations. In the case of a garage, I wouldn't want just anyone working on my car so, as there is little than members could do day to day to keep costs down, it would have to be run on a commercial basis, paying wages etc as you suggest, so the only thing we would save would be the fat profit taken by the owner - and I suspect several indies on this forum will point out - that this profit isn't quite as 'fat' as we might imagine.

Sorry, nice idea but I can see problems.....
 
Last edited:

PeterCLK

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
707
Reaction score
2
Location
Cumbria
Your Mercedes
2012 204 Elegance saloon 220 cdi
I don't think you've thought this through.
Why do you need £1.5m for a property? As it's for the benefit of club members a tidy unit on an industrial estate near a motorway would suffice. Cost £300k I guess.
No need for a prime retail location. This saves £1.2m to start with.
But why buy at all? When you start a new venture it's best to rent at first to see if it works. That way you don't tie up loads of capital that you will need as working capital (did you mention working capital ??). Cost around £32k p.a.
So it gets better. Perhaps the £1,000 is now £500.
I also think your budgetting is well out as others have said.
I would not be interested as it's a nice idea but impractical.
 

truthfindergeneral

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
228
Reaction score
0
Location
Merseyside
I can see it know. Garage up and running then suddenly you find you can't get hold of Mercedes parts. Then you start getting endless hassle from the Health and Safety police, the trading standards, the Vat man, the environmental officer.... all working on reports from a ' concerned member of the public " and nothing to do with the MB dealers in the area wink, wink.
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #12
Hi jberks,
Regarding demographics as a guesstimate, in a population of 1million people, if there were 1 car to 4 people there would be 250,000 cars on the road.
If Mercedes have a 3% share of the market, that would leave 7,500 Mercedes cars between 0 to 13 years of age.

Taking newer cars out of the equation that are still under 3-year warranty would leave 5,769 Mercedes cars, between the age of 3 to 13 in a population of 1 million people.
Example, Northern Ireland, population 1.6m = 9,230 Mercedes cars between 3 and 13 years old on the road.

If the garage, for example, were located in the center of Northern Ireland, not a congested area, any member living in Northern Ireland would be one hours drive away from the garage.

Your saying that all 2000 members will have to visit the garage for a total of 9 hours in a year, that’s all of the members, all of them?

What I said is that on average each member will visit the garage for 3 hours per year, now some will be there for 1 hour and some with the car you describe, for 8 maybe 10 hours but on average I think most cars spend 2 to 3 hours at a garage in a year, made up of one or two visits. On that basic I find the rest of the calculations completely misleading 16 to 20 ramps needed, that’s ridicules.

I was under the impression that the going rate from an independent was £50ph, I don’t quite understand your reference to 66 hours before you break even, the £1,000 is an investment, its what funds the property and all of the equipment, it can be recovered if a member were to sell their share on to a replacement member but while a member the money makes the whole enterprise possible.

Regarding accidents, I have dealt with that and expect that to happen and that is what the £25,000 contingency fund is for, this would of course need to be topped up as the year progresses and would be funded out of the regular income just like all the other day to day expenses.

I appreciate your feed back but I think it is quite inaccurate.

Dec
 

Myros

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
2,741
Reaction score
22
Location
in the great , grim 'oop north
Your Mercedes
R107, S211, R170, C219
not off topic

but you could probably get ( at a price) accurate info on the number of MBs in the uk, or any bit of the uk, from the DVLA.
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #14
I don't think you've thought this through.
Why do you need £1.5m for a property? As it's for the benefit of club members a tidy unit on an industrial estate near a motorway would suffice. Cost £300k I guess.
No need for a prime retail location. This saves £1.2m to start with.
But why buy at all? When you start a new venture it's best to rent at first to see if it works. That way you don't tie up loads of capital that you will need as working capital (did you mention working capital ??). Cost around £32k p.a.
So it gets better. Perhaps the £1,000 is now £500.
I also think your budgetting is well out as others have said.
I would not be interested as it's a nice idea but impractical.

Hi Peter,
1.5 million, that’s just an assumption, there are wide variations in the cost of property depending on location, certainly if the property were £500.000 then this would cut the set up cost in halve, all the figures are there just to demonstrate the idea, not really to cost it accurately, for that you would need to be involved in the real thing.

I think renting would show fear and lack of commitment, not good in any new venture, all this is just an idea and should not be taken too seriously.

Some people are getting a little jumpy, there is nothing really to worry about, it’s just an idea,

Dec
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #15
but you could probably get ( at a price) accurate info on the number of MBs in the uk, or any bit of the uk, from the DVLA.

I tried to find that out but the nearest I got was 3% market share for Mercedes cars.

Quote
Summary- The number of private cars in the state rose from 1 million in 1996 to 1.6 million in 2004, a growth rate ofover 5% per annum. Most of this reflected an increase in the number of cars per 1000 population.

- The rate of car ownership in Ireland, at 391 per 1000 population in 2004, remained well below the level in the UK (447in 2002) and the EU 15 (491in 2002).
Source..scroll down the page.


Dec
 

PeterCLK

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
707
Reaction score
2
Location
Cumbria
Your Mercedes
2012 204 Elegance saloon 220 cdi
Hi Peter,
I think renting would show fear and lack of commitment, not good in any new venture, all this is just an idea and should not be taken too seriously.

Dec

We'll have to agree to disagree here Dec. I've seen this happen on several occasions. I know quite well 2 experienced business owners who wanted to show their commitment - 1st got into a 15 years lease in a new location - venture failed so he is stuck with the lease. 2nd actually bought a few years ago and again this branch failed to sell enough goods. He's stuck with the property as it now worth less than he paid.
Just my two penneth.
 
OP
D

Dec

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,300
Reaction score
5
Location
Ireland.
Your Mercedes
W202
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #17
I see what you are saying however as in the original post it is the collective members who would decide how the whole thing works, the plan as set out is just to illustrate the idea.

Dec
 

jberks

Senior Member
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
11,153
Reaction score
41
Location
M1, Outside lane, somewhere between Leeds and Lond
Your Mercedes
Jaguar XF 3.0 S, LR Freelander 2, Fiat 500 & Fiat Panda
Hi jberks,
....
Your saying that all 2000 members will have to visit the garage for a total of 9 hours in a year, that’s all of the members, all of them?

What I said is that on average each member will visit the garage for 3 hours per year, now some will be there for 1 hour and some with the car you describe, for 8 maybe 10 hours but on average I think most cars spend 2 to 3 hours at a garage in a year, made up of one or two visits. On that basic I find the rest of the calculations completely misleading 16 to 20 ramps needed, that’s ridicules.

I was under the impression that the going rate from an independent was £50ph, I don’t quite understand your reference to 66 hours before you break even, the £1,000 is an investment, its what funds the property and all of the equipment, it can be recovered if a member were to sell their share on to a replacement member but while a member the money makes the whole enterprise possible.

Dec

I don't know about you but if I were to pay £1k, I'd want to get some use out of it and would use this garage as an alternative to the dealer and an indie. On my 25k pa I'd expect 2 services, some pads and disks and one or two issues rectifying. I don't think it's unreasonable that every enthusiast that did pump money in would want to use it's facilities. Unless they're very generous that is. So, yes all of the 2000 investors would use the facilities - else why invest?

Ok - I guess you could see it as a saleable share but it's high risk and the practicalities of actually finding a buyer could be interesting so I'd view it very much as a one off payment and if I got anything back I'd see it as a bonus. Also I wouldn't be doing it for fun, so I'd want to see some form of financial benefit from it. £1k doesn't grown on trees after all.

Your point that "most cars spend 2 to 3 hours at a garage in a year" I think is very optomistic. This assumes 1 small service and no repairs. If that's all you need, the cost is so minimal youmay as well just use the main dealer. This kind of scheme will attract the fussy enthusiast who will bring it in for the smallest rattle or is looking to save on servicing as he needs 2-3 in a year. Granny with her 6 year old A class doing 3k per year would be in 1-3 hours a year, true, but she's not going join the club.

Mine has spent way longer than that in the dealership this year. Just think how long it can take to interrogate the ECU, or find a draining battery, or strip and replace a window regulator. Most members will own older cars with more problems and remember, just to get a car into the workshop and on a ramp can take 15 mins. A corroded bolt could take the morning to remove - just ask BlackC55. 4 Wheels off, check brakes and ring owner to get approval to replace .... - the time quickly stacks up. Yes they may get through 4 cars each per day but equally one guy could be stuck on one car for a week.

As I say, based on many years in business I think it's a nice idea, but sadly very optomistic.
 

roofless

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Messages
1,952
Reaction score
2
Your Mercedes
w124 e220 estate
so it's a co-op. it would be worth looking to see if you can find a other car club ect who have done this & is it a success or not ?;)
 
Top Bottom