Paint type on a W123

BobProperty

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Cheshire
I'm looking at buying a W123 in a solid colour, but I'm curious to know what sort of paint would originally have been on it. It's a 1983 model, IIRC, so was that still cellulose or 2 pack? I can't remember when manufacturers started to change over.
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
Manufacturers stopped using cellulose in the fifties, they never used 2 pack, opting instead for a TPA (Thermo Plastic Acrylic) Their OEM paint took a long time to bake, In the 80's they were mainly using an infra red drying acrylic.. 2pack was invented mainly to stop the ...insurgents at the time.. from getting supplies of cellulose, which was a very necessary and powerful bomb making ingredient...But 2 pack actually became a well liked and excellent aftermarket paint..ie for the bodytrade..
In todays market if you were considering repainting the vehicle you would have to use waterbase paint and a compliant lacquer...compliant in the sense that it complies with todays regulations..
2 Pack and solvent based paints can only be used on boats, motorcycles, lorries and farm machinery..
So if you want 2k paint ..you have to state i'm painting a boat,etc...
 

teddycatkin

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
5
Location
cheshire cheese country
Your Mercedes
W107-SL W124-220te W123-230e W201 2.0
Bob --give Peter Adderley,s a ring on Mon morning ask for Bryn--( Bradfield Rd, Crewe) he will sort you out paint-wise and answer any questions you may have about paint matching-?
 
OP
B

BobProperty

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Cheshire
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #4
....In todays market if you were considering repainting the vehicle you would have to use waterbase paint and a compliant lacquer...compliant in the sense that it complies with todays regulations..
2 Pack and solvent based paints can only be used on boats, motorcycles, lorries and farm machinery..
So if you want 2k paint ..you have to state i'm painting a boat,etc...
I think I'd have to talk to my local paint supplier as to whether water based would be a reasonable match or whether I'd need some solvent based paint to paint my caravan to match my car ;)
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
Actually waterbase will be a better paint match than the solvent based paint..but those are the rules, I doubt if any paint supplier would supply solvent based paint for car respraying..The madness of Brussels once again..
 
OP
B

BobProperty

New Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Cheshire
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #6
Actually waterbase will be a better paint match than the solvent based paint..but those are the rules, I doubt if any paint supplier would supply solvent based paint for car respraying..The madness of Brussels once again..
Completely agree. Local paint supplier in the past has said what has been said on here. They can supply water based no problem, but if you want solvent based it can't be for a car. To the point that if you weren't known to them and you ordered a bucketful of solvent based that matched a car colour they'd ask you to sign a disclaimer saying what you were using it for. Of course, they can still sell you a few crates of rattle cans, which is economically and environmentally nonsensical, but, like you say, those are the rules.
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
I have read in the trade press that the original paint can be used where a older car requires it to keep it original like 2K, a private person can buy it and do what they like with it anyway
 

turbopete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
14,204
Reaction score
328
Age
46
Location
Spennymoor
Your Mercedes
2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
the ironic thing with these regulations is that it was mainly because the hardener in 2k paint contains isocyanides (cyanide poison basically). problem i see with water based stuff is that the laquer (or clearcoat as many bodyshop contacts i get chance to speak to occasionally) also requires the same hardener to be mixed in with it! all the water based paint does is reduce the VOC (cant remember what it stands for, sorry. hope someone is able to remind me!)levels in the paint process! it was said that ou couldnt buy cellulose paint/thinners etc a few years ago. i bought a litre last year for a touch up on the transit i had, without any problems! and they knew why i wanted it!
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
the ironic thing with these regulations is that it was mainly because the hardener in 2k paint contains isocyanides (cyanide poison basically). problem i see with water based stuff is that the laquer (or clearcoat as many bodyshop contacts i get chance to speak to occasionally) also requires the same hardener to be mixed in with it! all the water based paint does is reduce the VOC (cant remember what it stands for, sorry. hope someone is able to remind me!)levels in the paint process! it was said that ou couldnt buy cellulose paint/thinners etc a few years ago. i bought a litre last year for a touch up on the transit i had, without any problems! and they knew why i wanted it!

You are right these things are still used on clear coats, the arguments put up were by using water based coats for the base coats. were that it halved the amount of damage :shock:
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
VOC = volatile Organic Compounds...and the new 2K lacquers contain much less harmful chemicals than the previous lot.. or so we are told..
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
VOC = volatile Organic Compounds...and the new 2K lacquers contain much less harmful chemicals than the previous lot.. or so we are told..

It was good stuff though the old 2k, I still have some tools finished in MB blue that were hanging around when I sprayed some panel on it, still covered in spray dust.

I did not have breathing gear and I held my breath, sprayed a panel then ran outside, then onto the next
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
There used to be an old saying in the body trade ..anyone ever met an old painter...no cos they never get that far..
 

turbopete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
14,204
Reaction score
328
Age
46
Location
Spennymoor
Your Mercedes
2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
the guy that taught me to paint retired early. having said that, he must be around 75 years old now! i know thats not old, but not bad for a painter! sadly ive done very little painting for about 8 years so im a little rusty, and ive never ever used water based paint yet! im sure i will get to try it when i do the arches on the 210 though!
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
the guy that taught me to paint retired early. having said that, he must be around 75 years old now! i know thats not old, but not bad for a painter! sadly ive done very little painting for about 8 years so im a little rusty, and ive never ever used water based paint yet! im sure i will get to try it when i do the arches on the 210 though!

With heat lamps you can, practice first on a neighbors car
 

turbopete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
14,204
Reaction score
328
Age
46
Location
Spennymoor
Your Mercedes
2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
With heat lamps you can, practice first on a neighbors car

are heat lamps necessary or will it just air dry like the old stuff did? incidentally a neighbour has been annoying the whole street lately with his untaxed cars lying around. maybe i should use them to practise on!!
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
are heat lamps necessary or will it just air dry like the old stuff did? incidentally a neighbour has been annoying the whole street lately with his untaxed cars lying around. maybe i should use them to practise on!!

Yes you must have heat lamp, and warm the panel before you start,, the last thing that you want is something hanging around to dry, all of the dust and flies, you need to get it flashed off within 5 mins max
 

turbopete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
14,204
Reaction score
328
Age
46
Location
Spennymoor
Your Mercedes
2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
looks like the neighbours scrapyard rejects could be getting some nice smoke silver patches on them then, unless i can get hold of the old 2k stuff. dont fancy buying a heatlamp. i used a heatgun on the transit!
 

television

Always remembered RIP
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
164,073
Reaction score
331
Age
86
Location
Daventry
Your Mercedes
2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
The heat lamps do not cost much ,I use the flood lights with a quarts tube, if you are only do small area's then a gun will do, but as before, warming up the panel does help.
 

turbopete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
14,204
Reaction score
328
Age
46
Location
Spennymoor
Your Mercedes
2010 '60' Ford Mondeo 2.0TDCi Zetec (sorry)
last time i priced them, a good while ago, they were over £100! im hopingto prep it then get the painting out the way in 1 day if possible!
 

Xtractorfan

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,084
Reaction score
156
Your Mercedes
S class
Hairdryer is the best for drying waterbased paints, they need a good flow of air to dry the water/solvent from the paint, a heatgun is way too hot, actually a nice warm windy day and it will work a treat.. and when you paint it on or even look in the plastic paint pot it will look a totally different colour, but they dry out well and the colour match is good, One thing you must do is heat the panel well before lacquering to ensure that the paint is totally dry before applying the lacquer... if you shop around you will still be able to buy solvent based paint, it is only europe that has banned the use of it
 

Peter Best Insurance is a leading specialist in Mercedes-Benz insurance. All MBO members are eligible for exclusive rates on all our classic car policies.
Call now for our 'BEST' quote. Tel: 01376 573033
Top Bottom