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Particals in oil !!

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by razorsharp, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. razorsharp

    razorsharp New Member

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    Your Mercedes:
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    My wife put her almost new (less than a year old) SLC with only 7.5k miles from new in for a service from same main dealer she bought it from.
    They reported to us that they found metal particles and one 'large' piece in the oil when it was drained. They kept the car for almost 2 weeks and reported back to us this morning that they have stripped the engine and found nothing to be concerned about . They are now going to road test it for a couple of hundred miles and drain oil again and see if they find anything. If nothing found they will give it back to us !!
    What should I be thinking or worried about please guys.
     
  2. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    get the situation well documented by the dealer and insist on copies. and then ask them what they are going to do about it, did you buy it new,? i presume it still has makers warranty ? frankly i would want another engine or a change of car,. i suppose at least they made you aware of the fact. on the face of it seems like someone left something in it or a piece has come off somewhere .without the bits going for analysis its hard to understand from where. IF the dealer intended to leave the matter as is i would at the least be wanting a very extended engine warranty. one would normally expect trouble free engine running for well over 100,000 miles if serviced as makers guide. trouble here is problems from that rubbish running thru pump/bearings ect can take some time to develop into anything and MAY never do so ...
     
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  3. Blobcat

    Blobcat Moderator

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    OM651 engine isn't a new one so not expecting initial burn in issues
     
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  4. OP
    razorsharp

    razorsharp New Member

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    Thanks for that . Yes she bought it from new
    We are going to see what they say after road testing it for a couple of 100 miles.
     
  5. Botus

    Botus Senior Member

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    I'd want to know what that was....

    actually

    I expect that means the offending bit that broke has been replaced, "but as we expect you probably know nothing about cars we didn't bother to mention the commonly breaking part that fell to bits has been replaced" (in part to protect merc's reputation and also to make you feel better that nothing was actually wrong). I guess if it they didn't have to wait for a parts order or the 20 hours pulling the engine out to fix it they'd never have mentioned it

    the road test will be to get the rubbish in the new oil and filter and then do another oil change... std merc way of flushing out the debris. I expect if you search American forums you'll find a "tips" document about them self destructing
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  6. OP
    razorsharp

    razorsharp New Member

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    Agree with all the above .
    I did ask what the broken piece was off and they didn't know !!
     
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  7. malcolm210

    malcolm210 Senior Member

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    It might be better to take legal advice and you certainly need to know where the debris came from. There must be a precedent for this legally and it may entail either a new engine or a replacement car component break down in an engine is a serious matter it may manifest itself in the future and it may not.

    I would as a first measure sit down with the dealer principal and find out what they are prepared to do about the situation and if you don’t get a satisfactory resolution take it further and involve MBUK.
     
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  8. Tony Dyson

    Tony Dyson Senior Member

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    Probably the best advice you'll receive today, bear in mind that the dealership don't make decisions in cases such as this, the decision to strip the engine, road test and inspect with another oil change was made by MBUK, the dealership would need their instructions so they would be paid for the work so MBUK are already informed on the findings by the dealership and the fact they have advised you of their findings now puts the ball squarely in your court, if you don't register your concerns and walk away with the extended warranties or replacement engine you feel you need then as time goes by whatever fault develops will be that much more difficult to blame current findings.
     
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  9. umblecumbuz

    umblecumbuz Senior Member

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    The suggestion on getting legal advice, coupled with documenting everything, is sound.
    It would also pay to write, stating that you are surprised and disatisfied with the state of the engine after such a short time and low mileage, and that you are reserving the right to take further action.

    After all, when your wife sells the car, the next owner can easily check the records detailing this unusual happening, and this will probably impact on its resale value.
     
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  10. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    given the dealer says they DONT know where the debris/particles came from??? have they replaced anything ? if not the only real way to know is by professional analysis and thats what should be happening now ,ask for half the samples, if you dont get a good outcome .send that off to an auto lube lab/metallurgist . if as said they dont know/cant find out ??. i would likely say its a bit of material from the production process that skipped thru QC, not good stuff to suck thru the oil pump/ but you will understand theres a good amount of speculation here. i would not accept the car back until i had ALL the information and facts in writting on benz headed documentation together with a long long engine warranty pts and labour and if needed recovery to include a loan car of equal spec to yours if any engine failure occurs during that period .. sorry and good luck...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  11. om613

    om613 Senior Member

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    It sounds suspect to me.
    When engine oil is drained out or sucked up, it goes straight into a pan / vessel, 'sans qualitative inspection'.
    'Large lumps' (and smaller ones) would be inside the oil filter.
     
  12. umblecumbuz

    umblecumbuz Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. Remove a magnetic sump plug and you will sometimes find metal particles that have not got as far as the filter. The larger the particle, the less likely it would reach the filter. In the OP's case, the particles were large enough to be unusual, and raise alarm bells.

    At least, the Dealer was both sufficiently thorough and honest enough to alert the car owner - a big plus in this age of poor service.
    Book your next service with him!
     
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  13. bembo449

    bembo449 Senior Member

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    agree with al of the above , if somewhere in the engine is missing a piece then that means a part has been weakened for it to break off ! don't think I'd accept the car back without a new engine fitted as there is clearly something very wrong under the bonnet of her car
     
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  14. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    if its in the oil filter then anything that gets sucked up will go thru the pump ! assuming it passes up the suction fitting ,strainer.
     
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  15. OP
    razorsharp

    razorsharp New Member

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    Update .
    The dealer is now telling us that MBUK won't give them the go ahead to put a new engine in as the bits in oil is perfectly normal ! !. But they didn't keep or photograph the bits so how do they know it's 'normal' ?
    They are now telling us we have to take the car away as there is nothing wrong with it ! !
    Ombudsman and legal advice here we come I think
     
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  16. Craiglxviii

    Craiglxviii Senior Member

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    Feel free to name and shame the dealer too...
     
  17. ajlsl600

    ajlsl600 Senior Member

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    do you have a written report of WHY the engine was stripped down ? ( if it actually was ?) if not make that a priority. and it should note the findings. then if this engine has been stripped you are in the words of bupa in a dubious area of pre existing conditions where does the dealer intend to place this with regards to warranty? did not keep pictures of debris ,bxxxxxxs ! such evidence would have formed a large part of any claim to benz uk. think its time you considered getting a lawyer to write to them and benz uk if no satisfactory solution forthcoming soon. i feel for you,i would not want to see the car again myself.
     
  18. d215yq

    d215yq Senior Member

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    The dealer/MB were honest enough to do all that and now they are saying it's fixed, and it may well be fine for atleast a long while and most probably forever. I think you should a) document the whole episode and b) ask about extended warranties for them to pay for analysis of oil at next oil change just in case, but if the car works now I don't see why you can't take it away "without prejudice" whilst talking to them about that/threatening maybe taking legal advice if they won't honour that.

    Not sure immediate legal advice is the correct way to go - unless the car has a demonstrable fault I don't really see how you can reject taking it back - even more so as they identified the problem voluntarily. And if you lose, you lose the cost of the legal advice, and you may well get a bill for their legal advice, storage costs plus youre also presumably driving around in something else nowwhile you don't have the car. Also even if you win you can only claim costs that you have tried to mitigate - if a working car is sat parked there during the whole episode that may not be seen as mitigating the costs...surely the best thing for both parties is car is returned to owner and driven whilst dsicussion/legal advice taken to get necessary assurances in case of future problems...
     
  19. malcolm210

    malcolm210 Senior Member

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    I would be pursuing evidence/proof with the dealer that the engine has been subjected to a thorough internal inspection ie, the rocker cover and sump have been removed and that the mains, big & little ends, piston rings and skirts and bore linings have been inspected. If this has been done and the car passed inspection I see no reason not to accept it back, the dealer has fulfilled their and presumably MBUK’s obligation so I’m not sure that litigation will help as the car to all intents and purposes is deemed safe to use.

    The situation does leave a sour taste especially in view of the fact that the ‘Particles’ may have been present when the engine was assembled ie, swarf washed down into the sump or a subsequent failure in service (but the inspection should give the all clear on this). We the consumer aren't privy to how many reports of engine internal component failure in service are reported to MB but I suspect it’s pretty rare and it may reflect MBs stance on this.

    If you intend to keep the car 3 years and beyond it’s warranty I would be inclined to negotiate a free extended warranty and some compensation in the form of a couple of free services.

    Whichever way you decide to go good luck and I hope you get an amicable resolution
     
  20. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

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    Must admit I'm gobsmacked the dealer mentioned it, perhaps unless they needed the work and were pretty sure they'd get the go-ahead from MB to strip the engine.
     
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