Performance Brake Pads. A reply.

moj91

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Hello everyone.

Firstly, thank you to those who replied honestly with their opinions on the previous thread, and have been helpful.

In response to the original thread, which has been closed... I will be trying EBC Redstuff. (as the cost/waiting time for the carbotechs arent viable at the moment, i do use them on other cars, mostly racing cars but dont need to make an order for anything else).

If i dont think they provide a better friction co-efficient and slightly higher operating temperature without significant downsides, i will change them for the OEM Textar pads. I am using Textar discs this time, as with the Pagids fitted by the independent garage i use (despite all being manufactured by the same company,) i am finding i am changing the front discs as often as pads.

I have spoken to brembo and pagid who make other good performance pads, but they do not make them to fit this calliper/car, which is a shame.

I am overhauling the braking system this time as it is probably due with the mileage of the car, which we have had from new, despite seeing no issues with it other than needing its due brake fluid change.

Now the next bit....

I use other forums, and as a 'newbie' have always been welcomed, and impressed with the quality and usefulness of the content, however some of the petty c**p some people on here come out with, often for just the sake of making a comment, makes me wonder how much this particular forum will prove to be valuable. This seems to be consistent across a number of threads i have viewed. Maybe some of you on here need a think about how you use this forum.

...also, i'm not a troll, i just have other things to do with my life than spend all of my time on here.

Thanks.
 

television

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Thanks for posting back, I would like to know how you find the red on your car.

I do agree with you on the way the forum is run, and worse when a moderator who has never used them takes sides as you have seen. It used to be a great place where sensible discussions could take place.

This post will probably get deleted
 

turbopete

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well my car has had genuine pads all its life, BUT when i change them next, I will be trying out some of the GREEN pads, to see how they react with the car. curiousity gets the better of me sometimes!
From personal experience I have (on various different makes etc of cars) used Ferodo, Mintex, ATE and various other branded (motorcraft, unipart etc) and all seem to perform SIMILARLY to the genuine 'dealer' part (with the fancy box!
 

turbopete

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a little reading for those who like to.....

http://www.autoanything.com/articles/brake-pad-comparison-oem-aftermarket.aspx

....and this i found was a quite interesting site (as far as brake pads being interesting can go!

http://www.juratek.com/about-r90.php

Also, just as a side note, as regards fitting pads (i know some will already know this, but others wont) there are different types of backings on the brake pad backing plate. all are painted

1. just plain metal - I usually apply Copperslip to the slides AND the backing plate where it meets the caliper
2. Metal with Spring Clips - Again, I have always treated like above
3. Plain metal backplates with anti-squeal shims - ensure shims are cleaned (especially on pad sliders where fitted) and I tend to usually apply a THIN smear of copperslip on ALL faces of the shims ONLY
4. Pads with a 'rubbery' textured substance on the backing plate - NEVER apply ANY grease to these rubberised bits. Mostly used on the pad on the opposite side to the piston, but sometimes on both pads (on each wheel).
The Idea of this stuff is that after a few pressure/heat cycles, the pads 'bond' to the caliper, preventing vibrations and squealing.

The result is that I left school and went into the motor trade 21 years ago and although currently unemployed, I have STILL fitted a few thousand sets of brake pads. in all that time, I can only remember having 1 car with brake pads that squealed, and those had been fitted by someone else and then brought to me to try to cure the squeal. the cause was incorrectly greased pads (plain metal pad not greased and rubberised one had been) so I duly corrected the fault and the squeal went away.

Hopefully this will be of some use to those who are less well learned about the subject as our people in the trade/more experienced (at this type of job) members are
 
OP
moj91

moj91

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Generally I would say the OEM pads/discs are good, considering what is asked of a road pad (quiet running, cold performance, least dust possible, least disc wear etc.) They are manufactured by Textar, i believe (which is what you will get in the 'fancy' box from a dealer service dept. or from ECP) which are all part of TMD friction (who include Pagid, Eicher, Mintex and Don)...

The EBC greenstuff are more or less the same as a good (above) OEM pad... just with less dust and a little less bite as they are ceramic rather than semi-metallic. Maybe for other cars than the W220 S-Class the other well known performance pad manufacturers such as Tar-ox might have wider options available.

I will let you know Television when i have run the RedStuff pads for a few weeks how i find them.
 

amb67

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Sorry I appear to have missed your other thread but do agree with your comments about some prolific posters who have nothing to contribute.

I have had OE pads and discs fitted since the year dot.... just fitted EBC Redstuff pads about 2000 miles ago and apart from the lack of black dust all over my lovely alloys I honestly cannot tell the difference.

My car has SBC so not sure if that makes a difference.
 

Naraic

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I use Ultimax by EBC, not for better braking...they're as oem...but less dust.
 

c15htn

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Regardless of who posts what about what. Ref RED Stuff pads.
As I live (probably not far from the OP) In the capital city of roundabouts I'm only too aware of how easy it is to cook the brakes in a relatively heavy powerful car.

Seems to me that the general consensus is that the Reds would help with this. So, where can I get them from please?

On a side note....... If I'm allegedly braking too hard / late and should be using the gears... is that a good thing for the auto box? And what was the point of an auto box in the first place if you have to use it manually or cook the brakes?
 

Miffy

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Regardless of who posts what about what. Ref RED Stuff pads.
As I live (probably not far from the OP) In the capital city of roundabouts I'm only too aware of how easy it is to cook the brakes in a relatively heavy powerful car.

Seems to me that the general consensus is that the Reds would help with this. So, where can I get them from please?

On a side note....... If I'm allegedly braking too hard / late and should be using the gears... is that a good thing for the auto box? And what was the point of an auto box in the first place if you have to use it manually or cook the brakes?
I buy my EBC Red Stuff from Camskill. I also bought slotted rotors from them. I also never manually downshift to assist with braking.

1 USR893:EBC[1] EBC BRAKE DISCS EBC ULTIMAX SPORTS BRAKE £ 215.10
DISCS - USR893 - EBC Ultimax Sports Discs (USR Series)
1 DP31075C:EBC[1] EBC BRAKE PADS EBC REDSTUFF CERAMIC BRAKE £ 62.89
PADS - DP31075C - EBC Redstuff Brake Pads
1 Voucher Code: AREA52EBC 10% Trade Discount £ -27.80
 
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whitenemesis

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..................

On a side note....... If I'm allegedly braking too hard / late and should be using the gears... is that a good thing for the auto box? And what was the point of an auto box in the first place if you have to use it manually or cook the brakes?

I was always taught "gears to go, brakes to slow".

Brake parts are generally cheaper to replace than gearboxes!
 

television

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a little reading for those who like to.....

http://www.autoanything.com/articles/brake-pad-comparison-oem-aftermarket.aspx

....and this i found was a quite interesting site (as far as brake pads being interesting can go!

http://www.juratek.com/about-r90.php

Also, just as a side note, as regards fitting pads (i know some will already know this, but others wont) there are different types of backings on the brake pad backing plate. all are painted

1. just plain metal - I usually apply Copperslip to the slides AND the backing plate where it meets the caliper
2. Metal with Spring Clips - Again, I have always treated like above
3. Plain metal backplates with anti-squeal shims - ensure shims are cleaned (especially on pad sliders where fitted) and I tend to usually apply a THIN smear of copperslip on ALL faces of the shims ONLY
4. Pads with a 'rubbery' textured substance on the backing plate - NEVER apply ANY grease to these rubberised bits. Mostly used on the pad on the opposite side to the piston, but sometimes on both pads (on each wheel).
The Idea of this stuff is that after a few pressure/heat cycles, the pads 'bond' to the caliper, preventing vibrations and squealing.

The result is that I left school and went into the motor trade 21 years ago and although currently unemployed, I have STILL fitted a few thousand sets of brake pads. in all that time, I can only remember having 1 car with brake pads that squealed, and those had been fitted by someone else and then brought to me to try to cure the squeal. the cause was incorrectly greased pads (plain metal pad not greased and rubberised one had been) so I duly corrected the fault and the squeal went away.

Hopefully this will be of some use to those who are less well learned about the subject as our people in the trade/more experienced (at this type of job) members are

In WIS Pete is say grease the piston faces, but I have never done that, I first clean the slot out where the pads slide in, then file off any excess paint on what ever pads I use so that they are a nice slide fit, then grease the rear of the pads and just a touch where they slide.

I only ever had a tiny squeal once with a set of pads on one wheel that disappeared within 100 miles, and this was new pads on old disc.

We know that most noise is from any gasses coming out of the material, the noise is also the pad resonating on the surface of the disc the same as running your finger round a wine glass or a violin bow on the strings, the idea of the grease is to damp out any free movement.
 

television

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I was always taught "gears to go, brakes to slow".

Brake parts are generally cheaper to replace than gearboxes!

That is true, much cheaper and simpler to do, I just hate reverse thrust on engines and transmissions, this was all drummed into me at a flying school where prop aircraft are not allowed to fly in the stall mode till well run in.

My 7g box uses the gears much too much for my liking
 

c15htn

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My little old fashioned 5 speed tiptronic doesn't engine brake much. ... Well, not as hard as I do :shock:
 

television

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My little old fashioned 5 speed tiptronic doesn't engine brake much. ... Well, not as hard as I do :shock:
Yes the 5g is just perfect in this respect :D
 

c15htn

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I could have sworn that the non tip box in my 1999 E240 used to brake harder than this one does. ..... is it normal?
 

turbopete

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my 6 speed manual can use engine braking as hard as I let it!

I must admit though to slow down i DO prefer the middle pedal (ignoring the parking brake pedal)
engine braking i tend to just use on long hills to hold a constant, relatively low speed (following tractors etc until i can see clearly and find a SAFE overtaking space)
 

television

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I could have sworn that the non tip box in my 1999 E240 used to brake harder than this one does. ..... is it normal?

I am sure there is no difference, tiptronic is only the control
 

tode

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Hello everyone.

Firstly, thank you to those who replied honestly with their opinions on the previous thread, and have been helpful.

In response to the original thread, which has been closed... I will be trying EBC Redstuff. (as the cost/waiting time for the carbotechs arent viable at the moment, i do use them on other cars, mostly racing cars but dont need to make an order for anything else).

If i dont think they provide a better friction co-efficient and slightly higher operating temperature without significant downsides, i will change them for the OEM Textar pads. I am using Textar discs this time, as with the Pagids fitted by the independent garage i use (despite all being manufactured by the same company,) i am finding i am changing the front discs as often as pads.

I have spoken to brembo and pagid who make other good performance pads, but they do not make them to fit this calliper/car, which is a shame.

I am overhauling the braking system this time as it is probably due with the mileage of the car, which we have had from new, despite seeing no issues with it other than needing its due brake fluid change.

Now the next bit....

I use other forums, and as a 'newbie' have always been welcomed, and impressed with the quality and usefulness of the content, however some of the petty c**p some people on here come out with, often for just the sake of making a comment, makes me wonder how much this particular forum will prove to be valuable. This seems to be consistent across a number of threads i have viewed. Maybe some of you on here need a think about how you use this forum.

...also, i'm not a troll, i just have other things to do with my life than spend all of my time on here.

Thanks.

I hope you stay around long enough to report back how the red stuff behaves - I'll be looking for something with less dust when the time comes to do the front pads.
 


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