Please dont flame me

st4

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http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/index/?s...F10&banner=retail_vanity&WT.mc_id=F10_Retail#

The 212s nearest competitor. Just seen it and I have to say I think its

a) a huge improvement over the last one
b) style wise brings back some class to BMW
c) answers a lot of critism I and others had over the car (poor interior quality, dreadful styling and in my case poor dynamics relative to a 211)
d) Will scare MB sensless, 212s with failing injectors, iffy interior and styling more akin to that of a daweoo..

Sorry folks, I'll say it, I think that despite the badge thats a nice car. (but I still prefer my 211)
 

whitenemesis

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BMW and MB have similar history but MB are the original and that has a lot of weight with many.

I have always thought BMWs drive very well but they just don't have the "gravitas" of a Merc.

Plus the image is sooo wrong. BMWs are pushy, getting there cars. Mercs are arrived, achieved, nothing to prove.

Audi = BMW at the moment. MB still stand apart.
 
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st4

st4

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BMW and MB have similar history but MB are the original and that has a lot of weight with many.

I have always thought BMWs drive very well but they just don't have the "gravitas" of a Merc.

Plus the image is sooo wrong. BMWs are pushy, getting there cars. Mercs are arrived, achieved, nothing to prove.

Audi = BMW at the moment. MB still stand apart.

I see your analogy but at the end of the day you can buy a merc for more or less the same price as a bemmer. before this wasnt the case so pricewise there is little in it, if you can afford a e320cdi you can afford a 530d. If you can afford a S500 you can afford a 750i.....

In the olden days a 210 was a more expensive car than an e39, and a 124 a significantly more expensive car than a e34.

However today not so.

I suggest it comes down to personal preferences, and taste. There hasnt been a bmw in a long time thats been released and Ive thought Id want to drive that, I do feel that about this car, the way I felt about the 204 and 211 and 230 sl.

It looks proper plush inside too, but will it do the mega miles a merc can, mine just gets better and better and cannot see a reason to get rid of it so I am happy with what i have.
 
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st4

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Plus BMWs failing turbos & inlet port butterflies destroying the complete engines:(

Is that why you see so few for sale above 100k miles....

Forgot about that fault on the 2 litre diesels, not in the BMW scene anymore....

What about a nice v8 or I6 petrol one.
 

drdre78

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think new 5 series looks great.to be honest i wouldnt of bought new E class for another year cos they had same problems with CLS when they bought them out,but merc should not have these problems cos it same engines/gearboxs/if want good 5 bmw buy the one before wired desgin.:p.....mercedes have falling turbos and inlet port and butterflies breaking on intlet manfliod all same,
 
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st4

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Only real engine issues with Merc is new 4 pot diesels because they switched supplier to delphi, allegedly on cost grounds. The bosch systems in the old 4pot diesels work just a treat and CDis on here seeing north of 400k miles.

Its quite odd, we are slating our make of car, yet no mentioning rust. MB galvanise both sides of the steel panel, BMW just the one, yet rust not so major issue on BMWs but why on MB?. Future new MBs should be rust free but we've had 1 or 2 newish ones with rust. Search for rust on a BMW forum and its not there, search this one and there is heaps of it. Its safe to assume that this BMW will not rust really but it may have other faults.
 

hawk20

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Only real engine issues with Merc is new 4 pot diesels because they switched supplier to delphi, allegedly on cost grounds. The bosch systems in the old 4pot diesels work just a treat and CDis on here seeing north of 400k miles.

Its quite odd, we are slating our make of car, yet no mentioning rust. MB galvanise both sides of the steel panel, BMW just the one, yet rust not so major issue on BMWs but why on MB?. Future new MBs should be rust free but we've had 1 or 2 newish ones with rust. Search for rust on a BMW forum and its not there, search this one and there is heaps of it. Its safe to assume that this BMW will not rust really but it may have other faults.

That just is not so. Search for rust on BMW forums and you will find plenty. Try this thread for one: -
http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=39921&PN=1

BMW had similar problems to Mercedes when they both changed to water-based paints. After trying various systems Mercedes went for full galvanising of all steel panels beginning in 2002. See this thread: -
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=43408

BMW followed soon after but even today they still only claim partial galvanising.

BMW forums are full of engine failures after the guarantee runs out. The MB problems are on the new four cylinder diesels. Bad enough, but at least it is while under guarantee.

Also many BMW problems with splitting/cracking wheels thought to be exacerbated by run flat tyres.

See this thread and forum
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170979

See this thread too: -
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=59468

And see these: -
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...2&t=554261&i=0

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170979

In 2007 the 5 series was a lowly 54th on JD Power for customer satisfaction and 45th in 2008. For 2009 results go to the What Car website and see just how high the E class has risen.
 
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hawk20

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Try this one for example: -
 

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hawk20

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And this one too: -
 

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drdre78

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i rather have no rust then engine problems you can fix.rather then buying new wings/door/bootlids/bonnet
 

jberks

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lets be honest - there isn't that much to choose between them. We're talking here of new models and on either since 2004 you'll see no rust. Its 2010 now (near enough) so its an old, irrelevant, critisim and we really should put it to bed. Before that, accepted, they're both a gamble.

Reliability wise, as far as I can tell, they're identical.
I suspect the new 5 and 212 will continue the theme. The 5 will go harder and handle better but the ride will be harsher too. The 212 will blancmange a bit but on a motorway will cossett you whilst still effortlessly dispatching upstart mondeos.
I agree, the new 5 looks very nice, inside and out. Probably still end up in a 212 when the time comes but I might have a play in the new jag and that 5 first.....
 

type49

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...mercedes have falling turbos and inlet port and butterflies breaking on intlet manfliod all same,

Correct. Although different design, which doesnt destroy the whole engine. If your BMW does this out of warranty - MAJOR expense:shock:
 

type49

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i rather have no rust then engine problems you can fix.rather then buying new wings/door/bootlids/bonnet
A new engine would easily be £4-5000, probably more. M5 V8 block & heads (no manifolds, sensors, wiring etc), costs upwards of $20000 in USA. New Merc front wings are bolt-on & cost about £170 + fitting & painting:D

Also, if anyone can compare similar BMW/MB engine prices, just remember Merc ones come as a COMPLETE engine. Everything. New sensors, injectors, water pump & wiring loom. The BMW comes bare. Add this to the extra labour to swop everything over as well. The BMW comes out being more expensive, for fewer new components.
 

Alex M Grieve

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A new engine would easily be £4-5000, probably more. M5 V8 block & heads (no manifolds, sensors, wiring etc), costs upwards of $20000 in USA. New Merc front wings are bolt-on & cost about £170 + fitting & painting:D

Also, if anyone can compare similar BMW/MB engine prices, just remember Merc ones come as a COMPLETE engine. Everything. New sensors, injectors, water pump & wiring loom. The BMW comes bare. Add this to the extra labour to swap everything over as well. The BMW comes out being more expensive, for fewer new components.

But what, other than perhaps flooding or an engine bay fire, would cause the need for so much mechanical replacement?
 

stumpy

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My 2p. I am a huge BMW fan as well as a Merc fan too and over the last few years have owned several of each. My M5 from 02 suffered from rust and too many other warranty faults to list. But was and is still a great car. We have an 07 E61 35d which again is an amazing vehicle. The facelift car is much nicer from 07my, but yes the ride is hard in sport trim. Ditch the rfts and it is better. Idrive is a fiddle but all these interfaces are these days where they cram so much tech into a car. But where else can you get that performance, economy, emissions ratio?

What I find very interesting though is the statement that BMW are pushy and MB are reserved etc. That just can't be true anymore. Where BMW are toning down the styling these days ( new 5 ), MB are going the other way. The 204, 212 and facelift 221 are very in yer face and in my opinion trying far to hard. I'm sure as cars go they are all very competent cars, but for me the best reason for buying BMW is to not have to deal with MB dealers.
 

Mic

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It seems to me that if you start with a good quality product and look after it as the manufacturer would have wanted it will look after you from whichever stable. Avoid turbo chargers and small high revving engines and remember that cost effective motoring has little to do with mpg and everything to do with depreciation and trouble free longevity. My 1988 BMW 735iSE (straight six), bought by me in 1991 has now done 250000miles and continues to be used daily by my wife (18.5mpg average...the car not the wife). The two repairs were a replacement head gasket and torque converter at about 170000miles, an expensive year. This has been cost effective motoring over 18yrs. in a comfortable good quality fun car to drive.
My 1987 Volvo 760GLE (190000miles) has had no serious surgery but is looking ''tired'' from being used as a builders ''van''.
My SL 500 has been expensive to date by comparison on a cost per mile basis because of the high depreciation, I bought it new, but I intend keeping it indefinitely and expect to get similarly cost effective motoring as I have from my BMW in the fullness of time.
I ran Mercedes in the 1980's...a 220D, a 280SE and a 500SEL all reliable cars run to almost 200000miles when I used to cover about 40000miles per year.
The 500SEL was fabulous, 1984 I think, the other two under powered.
Too much dialogue in one post...sorry

Mic
 
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