Please dont flame me

[stumpy]

I like that bit

We'll come onto the Viano saga later !:twisted:

 

[Alex M Grieve]

It seems to me that if you start with a good quality product and look after it as the manufacturer would have wanted it will look after you from whichever stable. Avoid turbo chargers and small high revving engines and remember that cost effective motoring has little to do with mpg and everything to do with depreciation and trouble free longevity. My 1988 BMW 735iSE (straight six), bought by me in 1991 has now done 250000miles and continues to be used daily by my wife (18.5mpg average...the car not the wife). The two repairs were a replacement head gasket and torque converter at about 170000miles, an expensive year. This has been cost effective motoring over 18yrs. in a comfortable good quality fun car to drive.
My 1987 Volvo 760GLE (190000miles) has had no serious surgery but is looking ''tired'' from being used as a builders ''van''.
My SL 500 has been expensive to date by comparison on a cost per mile basis because of the high depreciation, I bought it new, but I intend keeping it indefinitely and expect to get similarly cost effective motoring as I have from my BMW in the fullness of time.
I ran Mercedes in the 1980's...a 220D, a 280SE and a 500SEL all reliable cars run to almost 200000miles when I used to cover about 40000miles per year.
The 500SEL was fabulous, 1984 I think, the other two under powered.
Too much dialogue in one post...sorry

Mic

A great post Mic. Many people buy, and maintain super cars legendary for their longevity - then change them when they get fed up, or at the first hint of a problem.

Keeping the cars for a longer period is entirely sensible, and obviously rewarding too!

 

[television]

We'll come onto the Viano saga later !:twisted:

Its not starting already ???? I remember your first ever post on the S class

 

[hawk20]

I recently had the new 5 series GT for a test drive. I liked it in many ways. Ride was good in comfort mode except on really bad surfaces (as Autocar found too in the recent issue). Cabin was stylish and less bland than normal BMWs. Seats comfy. Performance excellent but the rear seats don't fold flat, there is very little height in the rear compartment, and rear visibility is poor. Some will like it but not enough luggage and dog space for us. Lovely engine and fabulous eight speed gearbox giving 43 mpg combined from a large car based on the 7 series chassis.

 

[J400uk]

Wasn't a huge fan of the E60 5-Series, always thought the W211 E-Class was a much better car, but have to say I really like the look of this latest 5-series, more so than the W212 E-Class. Its also good to see they are both priced competively and things like full Leather/ Artico standard on both cars. As always, BMW probably drives better, but Mercedes probably nicer to be driven in.

 

[drmw]

As always, BMW probably drives better, but Mercedes probably nicer to be driven in.

Which is probably why you don't see many BMW taxis

Have to smile when I see the MB vs BM threads and the inevitable responses -anyone looking at some of the opinions could be deceived into thinking some members here are on the MB payrol defending their choice of car by trying to trash anything with a different badge.

A bit of a parallel with why people vote labour "because my father did and his father before him, so I always do".

"The measure of intelligence is the ability to change" — Albert Einstein

 

[Mic]

Whether or not a particular car is best is a matter of personal opinion, the usage to which it is to be put and very many other factors. What is certain is that no one manufacturer in any given window of time has ever made a range of cars such that every car in their range is better than their competitor's equivalent car. I think the SL range is unrivelled, others will not agree. I think the S class has mostly been better than the 7 series, but not always, others may not agree. Similarly......
As a generalisation MB have made good quality cars but not all their cars have been of good quality.
For as long as I can remember I coveted owning an SL and immediately the current version with a folding hardtop was being marketed I ordered one unseen untried and untested, foolish blind faith that I would not have exercised with most marques nor indeed all of the MB range. I collected it from Bremen two years later and I have not for a moment been disappointed.
BMW, Porche and a few others, as a generalisation, make good quality cars but not necessarily a model to suit a paticular usage, taste or image.

Mic

 

[stumpy]

The taxi / PH market is dominated by mercs for 2 reasons. Image and residuals.

 

[type49]

But what, other than perhaps flooding or an engine bay fire, would cause the need for so much mechanical replacement?

Like I said earlier, both MB & BMW use inlet port butterflies which are both known to fail. Failure of the plastic MB ones result in new inlet manifold. Failure of the metal BMW ones results in small particals of metal everywhere, destroying bores, pistons, bearings, oil pump etc etc.

 

[type49]

It seems to me that if you start with a good quality product and look after it as the manufacturer would have wanted it will look after you from whichever stable. My 1988 BMW 735iSE (straight six), bought by me in 1991 has now done 250000miles and continues to be used daily by my wife (18.5mpg average...the car not the wife). I ran Mercedes in the 1980's...a 220D, a 280SE and a 500SEL all reliable cars run to almost 200000miles when I used to cover about 40000miles per year.
The 500SEL was fabulous, 1984 I think, the other two under powered.
Too much dialogue in one post...sorry

Mic

Your 735 (M30) engine, along with it's 4 cyl cousin M10 were up there as the some of the most bullitt-proof engines ever built. I worked for BMW when these were still in production & as long as the oil is good & the cam spray bar bolts don't come loose, they with last forever. It was a version of the M10 1.5 litre turbo that powered the F1 cars in 85/86 ish. With the turbo on FULL boost (for qualifying only), they apparently got 1500BHP+ out of them!!!
Shame (some) of their current engines dont quite have the same qualities.

 

[Juddian]

The BMW swirl flap issue is a worrying one as we have had a 320d compact in the family from 3 years old and it's now 9...the problem is affecting some E60 6 pot diesels too.

There is a simple cure, a well regarded BMW indy at Chelmsford offers for sale and indeed fits specially made blanking plates in place of the offending flaps, our car has been so treated for peace of mind (its now around the 120K mark) and the owner reports no running difference at all..which begs the question why the hell were they fitted anyway.
The whole job including parts and replacing the troublesome lower breather comes in at about 170..hardly even worth taking the risk at that price.

The car itself, apart from early turbo failure covered luckily under the rock solid BMW used car warranty, has been excellent showing no signs of rust anywhere and has only needed the usual brake replacements and suspension bushes replaced.

I offer this single car anecdote because i too am bemused by the way some try to belittle any other make of car as being somehow inferior where the truth is they are both good makes that don't always get it right.

Apart from MB's odd dalliance with small ugly FWD cars (which i can't abide at any cost, horrible things the A class that should have been left to Hyundai to build) they both continue to make proper RWD cars with decent proper auto gearboxes that make driving a pleasure rather than the torture some other makes can be with their jerky nasty automated manual boxes and their equally nasty electric handbrakes...(what are you up to BMW bothering with those things for).

Looks wise, i'm wary of new designs especially where manufacturers are following fashionable trends started by other marques which do sometimes look rather peculiar once the fad changes, i still think the E39 5 series is one of the best looking saloon cars ever made..equally the W215 CL the best looking coupe of the last 20 years, much prettier than it's replacement.

Whatever they make it doesn't do any harm for the makers to be kept on their toes by the competition, and that includes Lexus who may or may not make as good a car but their dealers and customer care and total reliability are streets ahead.

 

[J400uk]

The taxi / PH market is dominated by mercs for 2 reasons. Image and residuals.

Image yes, but not residuals.

E60 BMW 5-Series have always held onto there value noticeably better than W211 Merc E-Class' do. Not sure about 7-series vs S-class. BMW don't have a competitor to the Vito.

 

[type49]

The truth of the matter is ALL cars go wrong - yes, even Honda. BUT...... as most of us only use these forums when our own, private car has misbehaved, the forum is obviously cluttered with hundreds of "broken" cars. It is the same with all forums from all manufactures. There with always be people who have nothing but trouble & others who have nothing but prase for their cars. In the end, you cannot really use forums to decide which make of car you all like best, you probably already know that. Search any forum to see if a certain car is 100% reliable, then you will probably end up buying a bicycle Most people on here are obviously bias towards Mercedes, therefore, the enemy (BMW) should be taken down:twisted:
Look on a BMW forum, Mercedes owners are shot at dawn

 

[Mic]

Your 735 (M30) engine, along with it's 4 cyl cousin M10 were up there as the some of the most bullitt-proof engines ever built. I worked for BMW when these were still in production & as long as the oil is good & the cam spray bar bolts don't come loose, they with last forever. It was a version of the M10 1.5 litre turbo that powered the F1 cars in 85/86 ish. With the turbo on FULL boost (for qualifying only), they apparently got 1500BHP+ out of them!!!
Shame (some) of their current engines dont quite have the same qualities.

I had heard that the engine is ''bullit proof''. Mine certainly gives that impression.

Mic

 

[stumpy]

Image yes, but not residuals.

E60 BMW 5-Series have always held onto there value noticeably better than W211 Merc E-Class' do. Not sure about 7-series vs S-class. BMW don't have a competitor to the Vito.

I wish BMW did make a quality MPV. My 2 month old Viano is going back in for the 4th time today! I don't agree about the residuals. In any event, residuals are hard to quantify what with the amount of kit you can add to these cars, and the recession has buggered things up too. With the 7 series BMW resorted to giving cars to embassies and corporates, as well as give away lease deals to PH drivers. I see that they are now the official ground transport provider for 2012. Seems a bit daft to me seeing as BMW don't make a proper MPV ala Viano

 

[Alex M Grieve]

I see that they are now the official ground transport provider for 2012. Seems a bit daft to me seeing as BMW don't make a proper MPV ala Viano

A very good point stumpy! Volvo have been ground transport to their sponsored golf events for years. I recall one year when you could not drive to within 5 miles of Wentworth as the roads were clogged by Volvos.

It wont take much to reduce Stratford to a standstill! Any collective transport arrangements will be a bonus, and I can think of no better way than to put the competitors in Route Master buses and whiz around in the bus lanes.

Or have Lord Coe and Dame Tessa Jowell not thought that one through?

 

[Dosco]

Or have Lord Coe and Dame Tessa Jowell not thought that one through?

Probably nothing in it for them Alex

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Probably nothing in it for them Alex

But it's an omnibus solution!! (boom boom!).

 

[hawk20]

Good review of the 5 series GT (or Gran Turissimo as they have told dealers to call it) in the Sunday Telegraph. Gives it 5 stars.

Oddly they refer to a four wheel drive version but none is on the website or in the brochure.

He likes the ride and comfort (as I did in my earlier posting in this thread) but exagerates the boot space IMO. With seats up the boot is bigger than an A class but less than a B class. And very shallow due to the coupe swooping roof. Lovely to drive though.

With a different back-end it could have made a fabulous estate car and then I would really have wanted one.

 

[Splatt]

I I see that they are now the official ground transport provider for 2012. Seems a bit daft to me seeing as BMW don't make a proper MPV ala Viano

I thought the Olympic Games "Fleet" were to be the new battery electric Mini