Please Help!!!!!

LostKiwi

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If it is swirlflaps some on here have removed them and blanked off the holes in the manifold.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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i haven't been to a merc indy as yet. i struggling to find one i will have to go to the main dealer 20 miles away.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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how easy is it to see the swirl flap? im not sure if this garage is telling me porkies
 

umblecumbuz

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Swirl flaps are internal parts. They can't be seen without removing the inlet manifold, although itis possible to determine if a swirl flap is jammed by accessing its actuator which is external to the manifold.They probably would not make a hissing sound - more a 'chuntering' sound if broken or stuck, but I can't see them putting the engine into limp mode unless the swirl flap actuator or motor was also affected.

Hissing usually indicates an air leak somewhere - often caused by a split or leaking turbo boost hose, and it is possible for that to cause limp mode. It is even possible for exhaust back pressure to cause a hissing sound.

Your garage may be correct in diagnosing a swirl flap problem nevertheless. They have obviously run and checked out the engine, whereas forum members here can only advise at a distance and at a disadvantage.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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Thanks for the advice. I' at my wits end with it. I' a baker by trade and naturally no nothing much about cars. The garage said 1 of the swirl flaps are jammed. And a new manifold is possible required. It's the suction sound on acceleration boost thats annoing. I can' help to think I'm doing the car more damage by driving it. Will the car go back into limp mode if things get too bad?
 

umblecumbuz

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Swirl flaps are a pain in the pastry!
There is a modification, detailed on this forum, where swirl flaps are removed and the holes their pivots used blocked. No more flap trouble!
Maybe your garage isn't aware of that.

Limp mode will not harm the car, although you obviously lose performance. It's a 'fail safe' setting, and I have driven a car for many weeks in limp while waiting for a spare part.

Hope you get yours sorted soon.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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Thanks for the reply. I have the car booked in a Mercedes Carlisle next Friday for a diagnostics check, hopefully they will be able to tell me what the issue is a hopefully quote me happy.
 

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FWIW, with my 2002 car, the swirl flaps are in one of the pair of inlet manifold tracts, per cylinder.

What I think happens (on the 611 / 613 engine) is the flaps get crudded up with EGR carbon residue and when the flap motor drive tries to close them, it can't so this damages the worm drive mechanism; the flap motor runs no more.
The ECU now detects a flap motor resistance out of spec, and so wacks it in limp mode.

On my car, the default mode for the flaps is open (a spring mechanism connects them all together). If one disconnects this mechanism from the flap motor's linkage, those flaps that are not stuck closed will be open. The flap motor was then unplugged from the loom and a 4800 ohm resistor substituted, giving a resistance that the ECU finds in spec = no limp mode.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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Thanks that does seem to be the issue. Driving back from work earlier and the car has gone back in to limp mode. I' glad really I don't want to do it any more damage. If one of the swirl flaps are jammed does that automatically mean you need a new manifold?
Thanks
 

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Here's a photo of the inlet manifold from a MB 646 engine.
The swirl flaps are shown in the rhs of each pair of inlet tracts. They are just discs attached to a pivot that opens and closes them as the ecu dictates. As you can see, the inlet tracts are also gummed up - blame the egr valve for that mess. It is easy to imagine how they can become jammed and affect the car's performance.



They can be removed while leaving the pivots in place, in which case no other modifications are needed. They are ganged together by cranks and a rod, which is in turn moved by an electric motor.

Hope that helps in visualising what they are.
 
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om613

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Or some folk remove the lot and plug the holes.
Labour intensive to remove and refit the manifold, whichever solution is chosen.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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Thanks that does visualise what they are and what they do. Hopefully next Friday I will get the answer from the merc dealer. I did try a independent dealer but they said there busy untill the 12th April and I cannot wait that long it' killing me knowing there' something wrong with it. Would a jammed flap cause the air suction sound iv been hearing on acceleration?
 

om613

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No, it wouldn't because all it would cause is a slight restriction to the incoming air (using one route, not two).
 

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if yr hearing a hissing sound, does it become more pronounced with increased throttle, if so look at induction system from intercooler to inlet manifold for leak ,as above loss of boost may well activate limp mode i have had inlet maniflod gaskets seals leak causing this and on 2 occasions a hair line crack in inlet manifolds that only become noticable at higher throttle setting ,as for swirl flaps most on here have more experience than i on them but i guess if they end up causing a restriction ,they may cause a seal or gasket to pop out, or even create the hissing sound thru the bush,fitting that any actuator rod passes thru the manifold
 

Steve@Avantgarde

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At this point I would like to say stop!!

I have never seen jammed or failed swirl flaps on a 651 engine, yet. (Please correct me if some have).

Common problems on the 651's are DPF pressure sensors, exhaust temp sensors (for which there is a modification to do the wiring loom in the event of either), snapped inlet manifold bolts, split turbo hoses and jammed EGRs.

So, if you have any fault codes from your car, put them here and we will try and help. But it does sound like so far that the local garage has got it wrong.
 
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Dean Fletcher

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At this point I would like to say stop!!

I have never seen jammed or failed swirl flaps on a 651 engine, yet. (Please correct me if some have).

Common problems on the 651's are DPF pressure sensors, exhaust temp sensors (for which there is a modification to do the wiring loom in the event of either), snapped inlet manifold bolts, split turbo hoses and jammed EGRs.

So, if you have any fault codes from your car, put them here and we will try and help. But it does sound like so far that the local garage has got it wrong.

Hi Steve,

I think your right, my garage isn't great and a bunch of cowboys. My brothers friend used to work there, i few weeks ago he left due to them telling him to do extra un-needed work on cars ( i didnt know this at the time).
he said when he was working on my coolant leak the garage told him to fit a EGR valve that wasn't needed as it. turns out it was the water pump that was required but they told him to put the EGR on aswell, he declined as he said he knew me.
the sound i hear when accelerating sounds like air is either being sucked in or out and gets worse the harder the toe goes down.
the car is at the main dealers Mercedes Carlisle next Friday for a diagnostics check hopefully this will show the cause of the fault im being charged £85 for the pleasure, i hope i get a cup of tea with that.

Thanks,

Dean
 
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Dean Fletcher

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^ This place looks to have good reviews Dean. You need to find somewhere you can trust as well as actually fixing the fault.

http://www.autotech-carlisle.co.uk/
Thanks for that! I did call them on Thursday but they said unfortunately there booked up untill the 12th April, suppse that explains why there so good. Depends g on what the outcome is urgent or not I'll consider taking her there. Many thanks
 
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Dean Fletcher

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The cars engine li
Swirl flaps are a pain in the pastry!
There is a modification, detailed on this forum, where swirl flaps are removed and the holes their pivots used blocked. No more flap trouble!
Maybe your garage isn't aware of that.

Limp mode will not harm the car, although you obviously lose performance. It's a 'fail safe' setting, and I have driven a car for many weeks in limp while waiting for a spare part.

Hope you get yours sorted soon.
the cars engine light went off today but still in limp mode what the hell is going on with It???
 
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