Red diesel checks

[simon_wall69]

Got stopped driving through Lancaster today by the rozzers. They were checking whether people had red diesel in their tanks - they said they'd caught quite a few people. No problems with WVO, though.

Never seen that before.

 

[Quickbrit]

Can you refuse that inspection?

What are the ramifications if you do?

MikeE
(no, I don't drive a diesel)

 

[brianbrian]

Answer to that no, But if you are not doing anything illegal why would you want to refuse.

 

[lulu]

Similar to refusing a breath test I would imagine!

 

[Xtractorfan]

It is illegal to use red or rebated diesel for road use or in a road going vehicle, so if you refuse to have your vehicle checked then they can impound it..

Just as a matter of interest, its a £500 fine for using red diesel..and if you are caught on a second occasion then it is £1000...

Way round it.. A group of ten people get together and decide to use red diesel. they pay £50 each into a pool, if any member is caught the pool is used to pay the fine.. and all members inform the others of any checkpoints..

You must under no circumstances try this at home .........

 

[hairyg]

I use LPG and fill up mostly at automated outlets operated by Countrywide Energy. Their tanks are all clealy marked "Road Fuel use only, duty paid".

If I were to fill up from someone's bulk tank of central heating gas I could avoid the duty.

Presumably the same penalties for avoiding Road Fuel duty would apply but how would the police be able to check? They can't dip a gas tank!

 

[PeterCLK]

Apparently quite common at farm markets and horse shows etc. I understand they do not need your permission to check your vehicle so they can do it when parked - assuming they can get into the tank.
Also, I think dept of transport can also check.
Maybe you looked alike a farmer?

 

[Quickbrit]

Maybe I lived in the US too long but it chaps my arse the powers that the police have in this country...

MikeE

Answer to that no, But if you are not doing anything illegal why would you want to refuse.

 

[Rappey69]

the "duty free" red diesel has been scrapped from 1st november 2008 due to complaints from fellow EU countrys as they said its not fair that we should get cheaper diesel for our boats etc...
since a 50ft "gin palace" can scoff £1000 per hr in fuel it has certainly made a huge impact in the boating world.
No idea how it works for farmers or plant vehicles now?
The duty for heating oil is about 5%.

 

[simon_wall69]

About 67p a litre I think for red, so quite a big saving.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Answer to that no, But if you are not doing anything illegal why would you want to refuse.

I'm not sure I like HMCE having the power to arbitrarily test motorists for law-breaking activities without any hint of suspicion, or the slightest scrap of evidence.

 

[television]

I'm not sure I like HMCE having the power to arbitrarily test motorists for law-breaking activities without any hint of suspicion, or the slightest scrap of evidence.

But this in no different to a random general car check that have been held for years, you would be introuble if you drove on after being directed to stop

 

[Myros]

It's " intelligence -led"

that means that owners of diesel powered vehicles have been known to do this in the past, and will probably do so in the future. QED.

Incidentally, I don't think the " rozzers" can perform the test. I think it has to be a Road Fuel Testing Unit of HMR&C. The police merely direct the traffic towards them and make them stop.

 

[Alex M Grieve]

Incidentally, I don't think the " rozzers" can perform the test. I think it has to be a Road Fuel Testing Unit of HMR&C. The police merely direct the traffic towards them and make them stop.

Mmmm. I suspected as much - a conspiracy!

 

[oldcro]

This is nothing new, checking for red diesel has been going on for at least 60 years.

 

[television]

This is nothing new, checking for red diesel has been going on for at least 60 years.

Indeed it has, when I used to own a small tipper lorry, I used the fuel from a tank in the garden (ex farm) but always checked on the routes before using it

 

[grayb]

Incidentally, I don't think the " rozzers" can perform the test. I think it has to be a Road Fuel Testing Unit of HMR&C. The police merely direct the traffic towards them and make them stop.

...and the Excise Men have long had powers that the Police can only dream about. Remember the historical dramas with Cornish smugglers et al...

 

[Myros]

this could be what they are so jealous of

s. 163 of the Customs and Excise mangement Act 1979.

163. Power to search vehicles or vessels. —
(1) Without prejudice to any other power conferred by the Customs and Excise Acts 1979, where there are reasonable grounds to suspect that any vehicle or vessel is or may be carrying any goods which are—
(a)chargeable with any duty which has not been paid or secured; or
(b)in the course of being unlawfully removed from or to any place; or
(c)otherwise liable to forfeiture under the customs and excise Acts,
any officer or constable or member of Her Majesty’s armed forces or coastguard may stop and search that vehicle or vessel.
(2) If when so required by any such officer, constable or member the person in charge of any such vehicle or vessel refuses to stop or to permit the vehicle or vessel to be searched, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty of [F1 level 3 on the standard scale].
[F2 (3) This section shall apply in relation to aircraft as it applies in relation to vehicles or vessels but the power to stop and search in subsection (1) above shall not be available in respect of aircraft which are airborne.]

 

[grayb]

where there are reasonable grounds to suspect ]

Playing the devils advocate, this would seem to be the dodgy part! If you are just driving through Lancaster, minding your own business in a diesel powered Mercedes, what gives them 'reasonable grounds to suspect' ????

This is a bit like the routine road blocks where they ask if you have had a drink. Not strictly within the letter of the law, but accepted practice...

Perhaps I'll join Liberty now!

 

[Myros]

It's the reasonable bit that's always interesting

" the man on the Clapham omnibus" is working just as hard now as ever. In reality, it is down to the "revenue" nose, the same thing that stopped you in the green channel. Based on the officer's experience, and known facts and profiles and behaviour and all that.
Natch, you can't tell a vehicle has red diesel in by the way it's driven, so the only way you can find out is stop it and have a sniff.
The reasonable way to do this is to stop a cross-section of vehicles and test them all. Unless you have info which leads you to believe that all mercedes are running on red. Then it's down to the quality of the info just how much you act on it.
Most law enforcement agencies the world over has to have some kind of discretion as to who and how and when they stop people, otherwise no-one would ever get nicked for anything.
Governments usually give the most power to the biggest cash cows, hence HMR&C having much more power than anyone else, as it saves/protects/brings in a lot of revenue.