Remapping and insurance angle

mtwoodlands

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I'm thinking of having my E350 CDI remapped, and clearly plenty of people on this site have had this done, but my insurance company says my policy will be invalid if I do. I tried getting sample quotes from 2 other insurers but it's the same story - they won't insure if the car's been modified and specifically mention remapping, even if it's an economy remap. How have other people dealt with this situation? I suppose some people just don't say they they've had it done but how easy is it for a 3rd party to tell if there's been a remap?
Thanks
 

daveenty

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I'm thinking of having my E350 CDI remapped, and clearly plenty of people on this site have had this done, but my insurance company says my policy will be invalid if I do. I tried getting sample quotes from 2 other insurers but it's the same story - they won't insure if the car's been modified and specifically mention remapping, even if it's an economy remap. How have other people dealt with this situation?

My insurers (Privilege) were happy with mine and classed it as a "chip management system" (this is what is printed on the policy) to give not more than a 20% power increase. As I also have the exhaust mods declared at the same "not more than 20%" figure, I still have plenty of scope to play. :)


I suppose some people just don't say they they've had it done but how easy is it for a 3rd party to tell if there's been a remap?
Thanks

To me this is false economy. OK, in the event of a minor bump/shunt they probably won't check the car over, though if it's more serious then there's every probability that they will get an engineer to check it over. This could prove very costly. As for how easy is it to check, extremely for a skilled person with the right equipment.
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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There are companies out there who specialise in tuned vehicles for insurance and i think Adrian Flux is one of them! That is who we are with, also as far as checking on your vehicle you cant just roll up to it and "see" its mapped as it has Anti tuning proection so data from the flash where the maps are can only be seen if the ECU is removed and specialist tuning qpuipment is used but they then have to compare it to the stock file to see the differences and i have never heard of this happening!

Many thanks

Team GAD
 
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mtwoodlands

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Thanks, I'll try both those insurers and see what quotes I get
 

V6Matty

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I'm with Hastings and they covered my economy map, worth checking around, maybe give Christ knott a call from here.
 

Neil H

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There are companies out there who specialise in tuned vehicles for insurance and i think Adrian Flux is one of them! That is who we are with, also as far as checking on your vehicle you cant just roll up to it and "see" its mapped as it has Anti tuning proection so data from the flash where the maps are can only be seen if the ECU is removed and specialist tuning qpuipment is used but they then have to compare it to the stock file to see the differences and i have never heard of this happening!

Many thanks

Team GAD

What is the score with the re-map when you have the car serviced? Does it show up on Star? Also, is it wiped when a new update is installed?
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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Good morning Neil H,

When the vehicle goes back for servicing they will not see the software changes, as we don't deal with anything generic all your HW and SW numbers will match and the file size also does not change! There is however the possibility of an update over writing the map but this is also very rare.

If you need anything else please feel free to message.

Many thanks

Team GAD
 

Neil H

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When it comes to moving the vehicle on, returning to MB or selling, can the Map be removed back to stock standard?

Sorry for the million questions!
Apparently the 400 with Brabus chip develops 388 so the 333 stock seems to have plenty of opportunity for improvement!
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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100% we keep all stock files in our database and also can request originals anyway so can easily be flashed to stock!

Yeah the Brabus power gain seems good but without testing and development who knows maybe more?
 

Neil H

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Ok, when mine arrives I'll get in touch. I have client in Essex so could swing a reason to come down there. How long would you need the car for?
 

C350Carl

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Doesn't a Mercedes ECU have a flash count? If so does your map reset this GAD? As that can be read very easily.

Also Insurance companies don't always play straight. A friend of mine has a garage that does tuning work and was recently approached by several insurance companies to "assist" in detecting if a vehicle was modified or not. He declined as it would almost certainly lose him business.

Specialist companies that do tuned cars that I've used are:

Adrian Flux - never again after they tried to double my premium for no reason!

Greenlight - Very good but won't insure RWD or cars over £30k.

Equity Red Star - Normally act as underwriters but I've used them in the past.

LV - My current insurer and are happy with the tuning box on my C350 CDI.

Others I know of are;

Chris Knott
Sky Insurance (not the TV company!)

Do not be tempted to insure the car and not declare any mods. You will often be surprised at how good specialist companies are.

I had a Skoda Octavia vRS that I bought new and ran it standard for 2.5k miles to check for build issues. I then let loose on it. The car went from 200bhp/207lbft to 345bhp and 330lbft.

Insurance on the standard car £620 for the year with More Than.

Insurance when modified with all mods declared through Specialist company (Equity Red Star) £435 for the year.

The other thing is with specialist companies they will replace mods like for like. So for example my car had a full Milltek Turbo back exhaust which was £1100. A normal company would put a factory exhaust back on in the event of a claim. Whereas like for like with ERS meant I'd get a new Milltek if required. Fortunately I never needed to find out if indeed they would. But that's what the small print said.
 
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davemercedes

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Where does normal "Servicing and Tune-Up" end and "Modification" begin?

Surely GAD only check and adjust settings - albeit very cleverly with electronic equipment - within the tolerances that have been built into the engine and management system i.e.: they tune it up to the best possible output which the manufacturer could have done, but failed to achieve this due to allowed tolerances?

- Surely in summary, GAD services can't be compared to the tune-ups of yesterday when specialists would be applying physical modifications e.g.: boring out the block and fitting racing pistons/go-faster camshaft etc etc?
 
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C350Carl

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Anything that alters the performance of the car from the factory specifications is considered a "modification" by the insurance company and the car manufacturer.

So for example if you remap the car you lose the OEM warranty on the ECU, Turbo, Injectors etc. As you have altered them to perform beyond the parameters set by the factory (regardless wether they are in tolerance or not) if it's fails you foot the bill. Obviously some Manufacturers will offer approved mods. So the likes of Brabus with Mercedes. Mountune with Ford etc.

Similarly if your car leaves the factory with 265bhp and you remap it 300bhp then the insurance company consider it modified (as it is) so they charge you for it accordingly.

Often though the insurance increase isn't much. My C350 CDI increased by £75 a year for the tuning box. So for the sake of £75 I keep my insurance intact.

You can get warranties also on modifications but they are rare. I only know of one person who successfully claimed a warranty against a tuning company. But then over the past few years he had spent in the region of £50k tuning various cars with them. So I imagine part of that was due to him being a "good for business" customer.
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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Of course we always recommend to our customers you inform your insurance company! Even at the best of times they like to wiggle out of there responsibility! That being said we have in the past also been approached many times to see if bits have been tuned!

Also c350carl is correct in that software modifications are out of the boundary of the OEM spec so is a modification!

Also I have been asked this a few times now!!! And also even had tuning companies ask me this! Bosch EDC17 ecu's in Mercedes diesels have no flash counter! There are only two companies who can see a software modification even if flashed back to standard and that's Porsche and Ferrari! !!

Many thanks
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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Actually tell a lie!!! Audi can see on tri core protected ecu's if the original file has been patched for OBD programming! Not if the ECU is straight flashed on the bench


Many thanks
 

C350Carl

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Also I have been asked this a few times now!!! And also even had tuning companies ask me this! Bosch EDC17 ecu's in Mercedes diesels have no flash counter! There are only two companies who can see a software modification even if flashed back to standard and that's Porsche and Ferrari! !!

Many thanks


I asked as I genuinely didn't know. I just knew that if one is present it can be read easily and it needs to be reset to maintain the "OEM" look to a manufacturer.


Actually tell a lie!!! Audi can see on tri core protected ecu's if the original file has been patched for OBD programming! Not if the ECU is straight flashed on the bench

Many thanks


I think they can see both ways now with ODIS.
 

GAD Tuning LTD

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Good afternoon,

Yes your correct a lot of VAG group bits have flash counters through OBD communication in which we have the ability to roll it back so the count remains static. Its interesting regarding the ODIS as I have a customer who I have tuned his 2014 RS6, 2014 SQ5 and his S3 all have been back to main dealer and no detection?

Many thanks
 
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mtwoodlands

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My experience for the record: don't be put off when completing an online insurance quote that doesn't cater for remaps. Complete the questionnaire as for an unmodified car. If the quote looks good, call them up and specifically ask about the remap. Some will let you have up to 10% extra bhp for nothing or a very small premium. I was offered up to 20% extra bhp for a cost of £38 on a premium of £280 which I was happy with.
 

C350Carl

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Good afternoon,



Yes your correct a lot of VAG group bits have flash counters through OBD communication in which we have the ability to roll it back so the count remains static. Its interesting regarding the ODIS as I have a customer who I have tuned his 2014 RS6, 2014 SQ5 and his S3 all have been back to main dealer and no detection?



Many thanks


They can only see it if they are looking for it. There is a parameter called "Tuning/Power Modification" or similar which looks at something to check. Nobody is sure what yet as ODIS is very new (about 12mths old). However with VCDS/VAGCOM/VAS nobody could see that my ECU had been remapped. My local dealer knew as I told them and also it was quite obvious that the Turbo from an S3 is not a standard factory item on a vRS! I was friendly with the local Mastertech and he showed me that when my car was plugged in to ODIS and the parameter was checked it immediately flagged it up. Not sure how or why but it showed.
 

C350Carl

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As an update to my post.

As of 2013, the VW Group online dealer tools have the ability to see software on any modified vehicle. When a modified vehicle is plugged in online it is flagged on the system, this flag is called TD1 please read the below overview:

TD1 is the VW Audi Group warranty ‘Flag’ for a vehicle that has been modified, this is something you should all be well aware of. If you’re not then please note; since the change in main dealer on-line diagnostic tools throughout 2013 performance software can and will be seen when a vehicle is plugged into online at a main dealer.

That is direct from a VAG tuner. I would imagine Mercedes have a similar system.
 
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