Rusty rally

[Xtractorfan]

A car from the factory will have around 80 to 120 microns..
respraying will leave down about 25 -30 microns per coat so X 5 for a respray..

 

[dieselman]

Yes but does this include the paint already on the car

Yes.
A first respray is usually about 170 microns all in, a second one about 230-240 microns.

 

[dieselman]

A car from the factory will have around 80 to 120 microns..
respraying will leave down about 25 -30 microns per coat so X 5 for a respray..

Given those coat thickness's and number it appears we disagree on the final coat thickness.
Would the normal operation be to spray 5 coats for a respray, with high density pigment paints?

My observations are from measurements only.

 

[television]

any making good would get flatted back to the original level

I am not sure if 1 or 2 base coats are used with water paints, the top 2k would be a double coat

 

[Xtractorfan]

Normally 3 basecoat and two lacquer, thickness of paint depends a lot on where measurements are taken, I cannot argue with your figures, each painter will use a different size air cap for his type of finish, and a differnt thickness of paint to suit,
It is many years since I've used a paint thickness guage, but the paint reps used to carry them, and they had all this irrelevant information in their heads..

 

[dieselman]

I am not sure if 1 or 2 base coats are used with water paints, the top 2k would be a double coat

The strong pigments can now achieve full coverage in a single coat, so it could be 1x base coat, 2 x lacquer, which equals ~75 microns...

Even at 2+2, that's only 100 microns which allowing for some initial sanding will still be in the same region, but bear in mind there may only be a thin primer even or no primer coat and the manufacturer manages primer, colour and lacquer in 100 microns...sometimes less.

 

[dieselman]

It is many years since I've used a paint thickness guage, but the paint reps used to carry them, and they had all this irrelevant information in their heads..

I only bought one after suffering a rusty Mercedes and problems with claiming to get it fixed.
Now I wouldn't buy a car without measuring it first, it gives a lot of information about it's history and whether Mercedes will honour a corrosion claim.

 

[television]

Normally 3 basecoat and two lacquer, thickness of paint depends a lot on where measurements are taken, I cannot argue with your figures, each painter will use a different size air cap for his type of finish, and a differnt thickness of paint to suit,
It is many years since I've used a paint thickness guage, but the paint reps used to carry them, and they had all this irrelevant information in their heads..

That could make sense on the base coats the paint does not have that good covering qualities

 

[Xtractorfan]

Actually todays water base or water borne paints arent really that great at colouring over or obliterating lighter/darker repairs, We use a buid up or neutral colour coat before applying the correct colour to ensure no shadowing...

 

[television]

Actually todays water base or water borne paints arent really that great at colouring over or obliterating lighter/darker repairs, We use a buid up or neutral colour coat before applying the correct colour to ensure no shadowing...

Is it still reds that are the worst, and the colours within that family

 

[Xtractorfan]

Manufacturer is using a much denser pigment and lacquer finish..also computer controlled to minimise waste..so will achieve the finish in less coats...
There are high solids one coat lacquers on the market..and have been this past 20 years.. never have come across a one coat basecoat that works..

 

[rustymercs]

Rusty Mercs

Dear Mr Moderator I take your point about second hand tv sets but the point is that I have been buying Mercs for over 30 years and have always done so believing them to be the best cars money can buy, and up to and including my 1998 e-300td I have always found this to be true. Banking on MBs reputation I coughed up £20k for a mint 2003 270ML, and after only 3 years it is £7 worth of rust which no one will buy. If I had spent £20k on a BMW X5 3.0 Diesel I could still hope to sell it for 15k, and any company that abandons its regular repeat customers is doomed. - soon I hope.

 

[syncropaddy]

An excellent thread indeed this, so I thought Id throw in my little bit. Rust is not an issue where I live and the only time I have seen 'rusty Mercs' is when its a car imported from the UK. Below is a photograph of one of two wings I took off a 1987 230TE with 320,000 miles clocked up. This car was an original Irish registered car

Sometime in its life it had a respray but the original black paint is in good nick on the inside. No rust to be seen and it spent 23 years driving around!

With the risk of being shot to pieces, I think that its more of a case of the vehicles not being prepared properly for the UK market than poor quality.

 

[dieselman]

With the risk of being shot to pieces, I think that its more of a case of the vehicles not being prepared properly for the UK market than poor quality.

A reasonable observation and the same reasoning behind rusty Italian cars in the 1970's, the problem is that Mercedes do rust all around the World and as they are sold into the UK market they should be built accordingly.

That wing does go to show how road salt and wet climate affects cars, comparatively.
Are most cars in Eire rust free?

 

[dieselman]

Banking on MBs reputation I coughed up £20k for a mint 2003 270ML, and after only 3 years it is £7 worth of rust which no one will buy.

I'll buy it and just show how nice I can be I'll give you a nice round Tenner for it..

 

[television]

It is not fair to bring 124's into this

 

[dieselman]

Only a robot could get it 180 microns all over but I have asked mb Blackpool if they can tell me what the measurement was when new, like I said before I been in the motor trade 25 years and there is no way a human could respray a vehicle to within such a uniform measurement

Out of interest I measured a Vito last yesterday. This is a new model but I can't see the factory paint spec changing drastically.
The readings ranged from 108 microns to 124 microns with the majority being ~111 microns.

 

[syncropaddy]

Are most cars in Eire rust free?

Pretty well. Most W210s I see are rust free. I had a loan of a 1996 W210 2 weeks ago with 200k + clocked up and there was only a few little spots of rust here and there, no squeaks or rattles. Its a 14 year old car that was bought for €500. Great value.
Some time ago I broke an Irish 1993 W124 and I felt guilty because the body was so good!

 

[syncropaddy]

It is not fair to bring 124's into this

I apologise Malcolm ..... I should know better than to tarnish the wonderfulness of a W124!

 

[television]

They did have some trouble in there day,, but great cars really